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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
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Subject: TML Bundle #270: Msgs 3258-3271
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Dec 11 21:00:12 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #270: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3259  05-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Revisions, Part 18 << Friends, I don't know h
3260  06-Dec-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Tech level 9 ships in Traveller (correct vers
3261  06-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Does anyone have... << reasonable condition c
3262  06-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Let's try on our own << Robert S. Dean writes
3263  07-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Carbon 60 << I just saw an item on the news t
3264  07-Dec-91 "C. Roald"        Buckyballs, Russian eggs, fuzzyballs, and buc
3265  07-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Let's try on our own << > From: Hans Ranc
3266  07-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Funny TL's (was: Carbon 60) << > From: Hans R
3267  07-Dec-91 Brian G. Vaughan  Where can I get a copy of Book 8? Anyone know
3268  08-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Re: (3265) Re: Let's try on our own << Just a
3269  09-Dec-91 MacGyver          d20 Task system << I don't know if this was p
3270  09-Dec-91 hayes@ll.mit.edu  Artificial Gravity via Flying Circles << >Ok,
3271  09-Dec-91 richard@agora.rai Buckyboats!? << Hans asks what we might happe
3272  09-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Re: (3266) Funny TL's (was: Carbon 60) << Ber

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3259
Date:     Thu, 5 Dec 91 22:38:45 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Revisions, Part 18

Friends, 

     I don't know how much longer I'm going to do this.  I need to speak to
Carl, but I think that full back/forth transfer from GEnie will be phased
out by Christmas or by whenever my next GEnie bill comes, whichever is first.

     Since no GDW rep has had anything to say (Trust us, you'll like it) for
a number of days, I'm not sure if they are reading any of this.  I wouldn't
say that they are exactly receiving overwhelming support.

     You know, I just fully realized this evening (as I was reading my Classic
Traveller Book 3) that by the time that GDW changes the rules system and 
the background, there is no reason left for them to use the name Traveller
except to capitalize on whatever good will they have left.  (And since I think
that we old Traveller grognards _are_ what good will is left, I don't think
it will work.)

     By the reasoning that they are using at GDW, 2300AD was really the same
game as Twilight:2000 (1st edition)--they had about as much in common as
our Traveller is going to have with New Traveller.  Scary, isn't it...or
maybe just sad.

Rob Dean

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 97        Wed Dec 04, 1991
V.UJCIK [Duke James]         at 22:32 EST
 
     Okay, I've been reading along here, trying to form my opinion about
what's going on. First, let me give a little background about me. 
     I've been playing Traveller since 1980 with no breaks. I own just about
everything published by GDW, DGP, Judge's Guild (well, it was official at the
time!), and Seeker. Aside from an occasional round playing AD&D, Traveller is
the only game I play. It's also the only RPG I own.
     I am trying to keep an open mind about what is going on. I am personally
adopting more of a wait and see attitude. I'll try to organize my thoughts
around the themes that have been circulating here on GEnie and in HIWG, with a
little of the TML concerns in here also (I have only read what TML stuff has
been u/l here recently).

TRUSTING GDW
     Unfortunately, I can't honestly say that I do. My personal dealings with
GDW have been _very_ negative. I find it hard to believe that GDW is really
willing to listen (as opposed to pretending and doing what they want anyway)
when they refuse to answer inquiries concerning published articles. It took
six months to get payment for an article I wrote. My three snail mail letters
were ignored! (It took a lot of GEnie email to get this straightened out --
I shudder to think about what would have happened if I weren't on GEnie. I
never have figured out what happened and GDW didn't send any letter of
explanation or apology, just a check in an envelope five months late.) Now
they expect me to trust them??? And we all agree that recent Traveller
publications leave a lot to be desired. 
     I was very disappointed with the Rebellion setting, particularly
disliking all of the unknowns that this introduced. It just got to be too much
to handle. The Rebellion has shown us that there really isn't anybody left in
the hierarchy of the Imperium that can be trusted. Intrigue and excitement are
what the game needed; darkness, conspiracy, and political stupidity are what
GDW delivered.

NEW PLAYERS
     GDW believes that they need a new influx of players to Traveller in order
to continue supporting the game. I can't comment on this because I have no
real feel for how many people play Traveller, or any other game, to compare it
to. I'll grant them the fact that attracting new players means more money and
I don't begrudge them trying to make a credit or two.
     I, too, would like to see new players. I'd be interested to know how much
Traveller picked up when GDW changed the name. However, I'm not sure how loyal
the classic Traveller fans will be to this new game. GDW is going to have to
gamble that they pick up enough new players to offset the classic players that
won't buy the new game. Which leads me to my next point....

T2K2 RULES
     I am vehemently opposed to this change for several reasons. First, no
conversion from classic to 'neo' Traveller can take into account the nuances
that the old system gave our characters. The two systems are different!
     Second, if I, as a Traveller player, had wanted to play with T2K rules,
then I would be a T2K player not a Traveller player. I don't agree that T2K
'is better.'  Yes, it's different, but both systems have their strong and weak
points and *I* like Traveller's system better than T2K.
     This has been a topic of discussion recently in my group. The consensus
reached was that we would probably end up converting 'neo Traveller' rules to
fit into classic Traveller. We probably aren't going to bother buying into the
new game rules. We will make independent judgements about the support material
that will presumably follow.
     Fortunately, the ability to take another system and make it fit Traveller
(and I mean the classic Traveller here) is part of what has made the game so
much fun over the years. Back in the spring of 1981, before there were any
'official' sectors published, I rolled up my own complete sector -- all the
worlds, starports, x- boat routes -- and have continued to fill in details
over eleven years. (In fact, my original sector was only 3x3 subsectors. I was
doing this on the fly and had no info to the contrary. Then GDW published
something, don't remember what, that said a sector was 4x4 subsectors. So I
rolled up another 7 subsectors to fit!) This is the sector that I use for my
solitaire playing. My group has used the 'official' stuff because then we all
have equal access to the information printed.
     GDW's talk about making their system generic to their product line will
only make all of their games look alike and play alike. One of the ideas of
having a game is the uniqueness that it has when playing it. Making similar
rules over fairly different games/backgrounds will take away much of the
flavor of different games. This idea is akin to a restaurant that serves only
one dish, but 'the spices are different.' It'll have a different flavor, but
will still be the same dish.
     GDW is fooling itself if they think people are buying 2300 and T2K
because of the character generation system. HA! Most people who buy the game
are getting it because of the background and/or basic premise of the game.
Since they come in a sealed box, how does a buyer (particularly a new gamer,
which is what GDW wants to attract) know what system is good and what isn't
before he/she spends several hours studying and playing with these new rules?
What sells the game is advertising and word of mouth, both of which have not
been very good for Traveller of late. With no advertising to speak of, and
poorly edited/written material, Traveller has suffered greatly. It's only the
die-hards like us that have kept the game alive and brought what few new
players there are into the game. For example, my local hobby shops have
posters of T2K and 2300, but none for Traveller. Why?

LOSING MARC AND JOE (et al)
     I'm very disappointed that Traveller has lost the two people who have
probably meant the most during the first fifteen years of its existence: Marc
Miller and Joe Fugate (and the rest of DGP). It's seems to opportune that Marc
leaves and Traveller is scheduled to be changed into T2K with another name.
Joe's comment says much of the same thing that I'm thinking, that the upheaval
caused by and/or around Marc's departure will mean lean times for Traveller
players. I also am skeptical of GDW's commitment to Traveller now that Marc is
gone as opposed to when he was there to champion the game himself.

TRAVELLER IN THE NEW ERA (Dave Nilsen's comments)
     Dave says, '...Traveller is back!' As far as I'm concerned it didn't go
anywhere (pun intended). That is, I'm still playing it as are many others, and
GDW didn't support us much during the last couple of years. Now, all of a
sudden, here they are telling us they are willing to listen to us as they
prepare another onslaught of new rules (instead of what we really want, which
is well written and edited _extended_ rules and more background/adventures).
On the other hand, they tell us that they've already decided to change the
game in the most major way you can change a game, i.e. the character system
and they won't except any inputs here. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather
they call their new game something else and leave Traveller well enough alone!
     I'd like to know how many letters GDW has received in the last couple of
years begging them to change Traveller to the T2K system. My bet is *zero*. I
haven't seen much to substantiate the rumor that the T2K system is _better_
than the Traveller system. They are different, and everyone has their likes
and dislikes, but I hate it when someone comes along and tells *me* that 'THIS
IS BETTER.' In my experience, this is usually the opening speech of someone
who doesn't know what they are talking about or is out for a cheap thrill.
Soon after the whole thing collapses like a black hole, never to be heard
about again.
     I think Dave is out in left field when he says "...will not require you
to buy time on the MIT mainframe to generate a fleet of starships." Maybe Dave
can't generate a ship without a computer, but I can. Rob Dean has generated
over 300!!!!! He also says that starship combat will be more fun and detailed.
This is also an opinion that has absolutely no substantiation behind it. Fun
is a relative term, like better!
     I also definitely get the feeling that Dave *is not* reading the same
GEnie and TML notes that I'm reading. Most of what I hear is against a major
change such as GDW proposes. I'd like more detail about how Dave thinks that
they are 'right on target.' It sounds to me like we may be looking at two very
different targets (both moving diametrically opposed in opposite directions!)


     Now that I've got that out of my system, I will say that I will consider
the new system if I think that it improves the game that I like to play. If it
doesn't, then I won't buy it. My decision will be based on the merits of the
system and the reviews that I read. I will definitely *not* buy it as soon as
it hits the shelves! After the last couple of years I'm much to gunshy for
that.
     It's also too bad that GDW thinks that they have to support the move to
the darker themes that seem prevalent in today's RPGs. I, for one, play
Traveller for precisely the opposite reason, i.e. the escape from the real
world into a world of fun and exploration, not one worse off than the one I
live in now. 
     I think GDW is still shying away from the very thing that made D&D a hit
when it came out: playing aliens is fun. Every time we get close to having
enough info to really play aliens well, the system collapses and we have to
start all over. They seem to get close to where we, the players, want to go
and then say "Ooops, here's something BETTER FOR YOU! All you have to do is
buy all these new books, read all this new background." 
     GDW, why don't you try learning from TSR. D&D (all versions) support
several different backgrounds in pretty much the same universe. The Traveller
universe is also big enough for all of us too. My suggestion is to move the
new Traveller somewhere else while maintaining support for classic Traveller
as well (like TSR). Otherwise I'm afraid that you will kill Traveller, or at
best make it into Twilight: 5700.
     Thanks for listening (reading) this diatribe. I feel much better now,
don't you?
     All together now, nice and loud.....


"WE WANT CLASSIC TRAVELLER, WE WANT CLASSIC TRAVELLER, WE WANT CLASSIC
TRAVELLER........"

               For now,
                    Duke James
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 98        Wed Dec 04, 1991
D.MATHESON1                  at 23:12 EST
 
<<<Faint rustling from the electronic bushes as a lurker moves into the
light>>>

  I've been following the discussion here for some time, both before and after
this big revision talk started, and I thought  I would join in and put in my

  First, a bit of background.  I've been playing Traveller/MegaTraveller since
1977, and I figure in that time I've averaged about one game a week.  My
current campaign has been in operation for over 25 years of  game time, and
that doesn't include various side adventures and campaigns. I have been
running tournaments at conventions for 8 years now.  In the real world, I am
an engineer designing control systems for an electrical utility.

  Having said that, how do I feel about MT v2.0?  First, what parts of the
MegaTraveller system would I like to keep?

   1)  The Skill/Task system.

  I could live without just about everything else.  I have never been fond of
the vehicle design system, the trade and speculation system is completely
worthless, and the only thing saving world generation is the DGP WBH.
  I am not even attached to the Imperium background.  When I started my
campaign in 1977, there was no Imperium.  I developed my own universe, and
never saw any real reason to switch to the *official* one.  For that reason, I
am really not concerned with how "logical" the Space Viking background is. 
I'll probably ignore it anyway.

  What would I like to see in a new system.  A logical trade and speculation
system for one.  Has anyone besides me ever noticed that a ton of iron ore, a
ton of refined steel, a ton of steel machine parts, and a ton of completed
equipment ALL COST THE EXACT SAME THING!!!  Or that I can sit at a Starport
and buy and sell cargo and make a fortune ALL WITHOUT EVER MOVING MY SHIP!!! 
(Sorry, got a little heated there.)  I designed my own system some time ago,
but would be interested in seeing an *official* one.
  I would also like to see a better ship design system.  Yes, I know some
people here really like designing ships, but I designed two or three then gave
up on the whole thing.  Starship combat also needs work.  (Right now, I use
Star Strike as my ship design/combat system.)  I would like to see a
simplified design sequence, perhaps using the component system someone
described earlier; something that would let me design/modify a ship during a
game session, as opposed to having to devote an entire evening to one design.
  A new and improved robot design system would be nice too.

  Someone asked if we were familiar with the T2K/DC system.  I have played T2K
v1.0 a few times, and have DC.  I like the character generation system in DC,
but that's about it.  I felt the task system was inferior to the one in MT,
and really didn't like the combat system.  (And while I'm at it,  can someone
*please* tell me why in DC gun combat is a Strength related skill?)

  That looks like about .02Cr...

<<rustling sound as a figure retreats into the bushes>>
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 99        Thu Dec 05, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 21:53 EST
 
James,
     The reason it took so long to straighten out was that the letters we sent
all (except the last one) kept coming back marked "Unknown at this Address." 
     I remember sending you an apology via GEnie. I still have no explanation.
     Loren
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3260
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1991 14:15 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Tech level 9 ships in Traveller (correct version, sorry)

Howdy,

There is an interesting article by Chuck Gannon in the latest challenge
on Tech 9 ships.  As an avid design nut I thought I wouild just voice a
few observations on them.

He goes on at length about the use of centrifuge systems in TL 9 ships.
But there is no cost/weight/volume/power requirements of such systems.
(Sigh)

The utility/necessity of artificial gravity is gone into in some detail.
However, In my opinion, TL 9 and above do not always need such systems.
Ok, in order to keep the crew and passengers comfortable, you need to
keep your standard maneuvering at 1 G of acceleration.  This would mean
that the crew will be standing on the 'floor' (the plane perpendicular to
the direction of acceleration)  And the crew would feel perfectly normal
doing so, as long as the instrument panels are so aligned.

It has always been my thought that all military ships would have their
interior setups in this fashion.  There may be exceptions as seen in
ships deck plans (scout ship, Kinunir, and other published designs)
but the majority would be more in line with the Broadsword and Azhanti
High Lightning type plans.  The reason for this is that an accelerating
ship need not turn on it's internal gravity, and needs only partial
inertial compensation to have a simulated 1G to keep crew/passengers on
the floor.  (It would save power to do so, and in case of environment
systems failure, the crew wouldn't be suddenly plasterd to the walls, they
would only feel pressed into the floor)

Regardless of military designs, a ship without internal gravity must orient
their floor patterns this way.  I would guess that most maneuvers by such
craft would be made at 1G so as not to expose the crews to higher than normal
accelerations.  (2G's isn't so bad when you're sitting down, but I wouldn't
care to walk under that if I didn't have to.)  Given the endurance of the
ships involved (30 days) you don't need to be a super 3G speed demon to get
where you are going.  Thus 1G sounds just fine to me.

Ok, now when is such a ship going to be in zero G?  Well?  The only time
you wouldn't be firing your engines is in Jump.  (Actually I have never
read anything that says you can't use your maneuver drive in jump, but
there is no reason to except in this particular case.)  {maybe our TML
historian knows of a reason I do not...  Metlay?}

At all other times a ship may fire it's engines to simulate gravitation.
Even if the ship is just stationkeeping in orbit, the engines may be
fired.  Just put a slow spin on the ship and accelerate at one G.  You will
essentually be flying in a circle, but that won't affect a ship in orbit
too much.  You might annoy some guy in the starport control tower with
maneuvers like that, but then again it should be a standard tech 9 station
keeping maneuver.

"Regina Tower, this is Six Eight Alpha Charlie, requesting clearance for
non-gravitic station-keeping maneuvers..."

"Six Eight Alpha Charlie, this is Regina Tower, clearance for station
keeping maneuvers is given, when are you guys gonna get that internal
gravity fixed?"

Another problem I noted in the designs was a difference of opinion on what
is needed for navigation in a Tech 9 ship.

When I had worked up The Horde, I had a few ideas about the minimum
necessary sensors needed by a space craft, and starship.  The Horde
had active All Weather Radar with a planetary range.  I figured that the
ships mightn't always be having to land under clear skies, and certain
types of planetary atmospheres would require it.

The designs in Challenge all have only radar.

I hadn't really given much thought to ducking radiation belts as is covered
in Challenge, and hadn't included the radiation and magnetic sensors.
These of course only cost about 1000 Cr a piece and so may be considered in
the noise level of the ships.

But the sensors I did included that Challenge didn't had good reason behind
them.  I included a radar direction finder so that the craft could easily
locate navigation beacons at interplanetary ranges.  For interplanetary
travel to planets/asteroids that do not have such radio beacons, I included
a Light Amplifier (which is about as close to a telescope as the sensor
lists get)  (The Light Amp is noise level, but the RDF cost around 13,000Cr
which is starting to get into the range that counts)

Now military ships are definitely going to want a radar direction finder,
and probably a laser sensor as well for defensive purposes.  But the
Cruiser included does not have either of these.

I would also think that a starship would need some sort of sensors that
are capable of pinpointing the star to which the ship is going to jump
to.  Radiation & Magnetic sensors just aren't gonna do it.  I think you
are gonna need at least a telescope (light amplifier) and possibly a
radar direction finder to locate the destination star by it's radio
emmissions.  (I don't know much about astronomy but I do know that a
radiation counter will not pinpoint a star against all the background
radiation.  A magnetic sensor will be equally useless)

Mr. Gannon includes an active audio sensor (sonar) in all the ships with
the justification that this is a replacement for the Neural Activity
Sensors in higher TL craft.  Well, that's an interesting idea that I never
thought of, but I would question the utility of such a sensor on the ships
that can't land!  According to GDW, unstreamlined ships can not land
on a planetary surface.  Therefore an audio system is NOT really useful.
	On the other hand, a ship which is capable of putting out 1G of
acceleration for 30 days should be able to enter a planet's atmosphere at
any speed it chooses (max speed 300kph? fine!)  Perhaps Mr. Gannon will
persuade GDW this is possible.

My last complaint with the designs may be just a typo.  But None of the
ships have fuel scoops.  Why worry about the radiation belts in a gas
giant if you don't have scoops to use in there anyway?  FUUUURRRRR!!!!!
I think that here we have another example of GDW's FAMOUS WONDERFUL
editing/proofing that we will doubtless see more of in Traveller 3.


Grumble, Grumble, Grumble...

Mr. Scott

PS. on inter-racial sex in Trav?  I once had a character who was a telepath.
He ran into a male Aslan from Darrian who claimed to have slept with every
major race and many of the minor ones.

I was a BIT doubtful of this and read his mind to confirm this...

He was lying about the Droyne.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3261
Date:     Fri, 6 Dec 91 16:33:46 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Does anyone have...

reasonable condition copies of Supplements 2, 10 and 13 (Animal Encounters,
Solomani Rim, and Charts and Forms) that they would be willing to sell or 
trade?  These are the only three "little black books" that I don't have...
because I never felt that I needed them.  Now, it's a matter of completing the
collection.

Which reminds me...I mentioned yesterday that I have been re-reading the
classic Traveller books over the last couple of days in order to prepare
some sort of argument for GDW.  Upon reflection, I am beginning to think
that the GDW sales system of Books, Supplements, Adventures and Games was
probably the best organized (that is, the most 'user friendly') system that
has ever been published.  More recent GDW publications (say, COACC) have
certainly forced one to buy material that may be of very marginal use
(such as the Eddum Campaign) in order to get material that was considered
desirable (like an aircraft system, however badly flawed, which is a
related issue).  Is there anybody else out there who strongly agrees or 
disagress about this business of organization?

Rob Dean

(P.S.  Does anyone have a spare copy of "The Traveller Book"? Softcover or
hardcover would be acceptable...I've got SORAG, Vanguard Reaches and Beyond 
that I could be persuaded to trade, after xeroxing, of course.)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3262
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Let's try on our own
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 23:32:56 MET

Robert S. Dean writes:
>
>You know, I just fully realized this evening (as I was reading my Classic
>Traveller Book 3) that by the time that GDW changes the rules system and
>the background, there is no reason left for them to use the name Traveller
>except to capitalize on whatever good will they have left. (And since I think
>that we old Traveller grognards _are_ what good will is left, I don't think
>it will work.)
>
>   By the reasoning that they are using at GDW, 2300AD was really the same
>game as Twilight:2000 (1st edition)--they had about as much in common as
>our Traveller is going to have with New Traveller. Scary, isn't it...or
>maybe just sad.
>
>Rob Dean

Well, if GDW is going to dump MegaTraveller and DGP is too, how do you people
feel about trying to keep it alive by ourselves? I don't suppose we could
manage an actual business-type game company (even if GDW would grant us a
license), but we might be able to do some sort of ideas exchange or something.
I've several pieces lying around that I planned to whip into shape and sell
to GDW or DGP... someday soon ;-). If I won't be able to do so, I might as
well share it with someone who will enjoy it. (Of course, I may not take the
trouble to cross the i's and dot the t's). I've a good deal of information
about the Five Sisters Subsector (Mostly Mirriam, Karin and Iderati) and I'm
currently working on The Weltbund, a small interstellar state in the Foreven
and Beyond Sektors spinward of the Spinward Marches. (Actually, it would be
fun if we could get the license to those areas. They used to belong to
Paranoia Press and FASA respectively, and the PP stuff at least is no longer
official. It's the one place where it would be possible to create a genuine
unknown frontier (as opposed to the settled-1000-years-ago frontier of The
Spinward Marches. I always felt that GDW mad a mistake in placing huge
interstellar states on all sides of the Imperium)).

The last bit is just a pipedream, of course, but what about the rest of it?
If each of us works out one or two planets in detail (and have them vetted
by some of the others) then we could each get a lot more background material
than we could manage on our own.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3263
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Carbon 60
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 91 0:44:39 MET

I just saw an item on the news today to the effect that scientists
at Risoe, Denmark's Atomic Research Station, had discovered a way to
make a molecule consisting of 60 carbon atoms that had amazing
properties. Only one was mentioned, but that one was pretty interesting:
It is a room-temperature super- conductor!

Furthermore the equipment they use to make it could have been built 50
years ago. That means that we now know of a Tech 6 room-temperature
superconductor. Neat, huh? Whatever will they think of next...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
                "I am a jelly doughnut."
                        J.F. Kennedy

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3264
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 91 01:11 -0400
From: "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: Buckyballs, Russian eggs, fuzzyballs, and buckytubes

See the October 91 Scientific American for a welter of cool stuff carbon
can be induced to do.  

The picture on the cover is a buckyball (C60) caging a uranium atom. They
haven't figured out yet what it does, but something that cool has
to have do something interesting...

   roald.

- --
"Thank heavens I don't look like Gauss the Dawg."	-- The FTSL Monster

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3265
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Let's try on our own
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 91 11:33:48 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Subject: (3262) Let's try on our own
> 
> Well, if GDW is going to dump MegaTraveller and DGP is too, how do you people
> feel about trying to keep it alive by ourselves? I don't suppose we could
> manage an actual business-type game company (even if GDW would grant us a
> license)

  Personally I doubt wether GDW will issue any licenses for anything Traveller-
related if they themselves are trying to push Traveller: TNE. It is called
destroying the market if we start to sell to all the old dogs.

> , but we might be able to do some sort of ideas exchange or something.

  I think one of the reasons behind the less-than-stunning success of MegaT
(besides the bugs and all of that) was that there were no overall plan of
publication. Somebody felt like doing a indepth look at starships and we got
the Starship Opman Vol 1 [sic!]. Somebody else had always wanted to do 
something about aircrafts and we got COACC when we hadn't even got a good look
at Dulinors home domain, to paraphrase Metlay.

  This is no way of publishing a game. To do that, a plan is needed that
identifies which areas the players need and fills them in.

  I'd hate to sound like the Devils Advocate but I think that to do something
like that, a core in physical contact with eachother is needed. And at least
one of them will have to work full time with it.

>       Hans Rancke

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3266
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Funny TL's (was: Carbon 60)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 91 11:52:42 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Subject: (3263) Carbon 60
> 
> Furthermore the equipment they use to make it could have been built 50
> years ago. That means that we now know of a Tech 6 room-temperature
> superconductor. Neat, huh? Whatever will they think of next...

  There is a lot of inventions that theoretically could have been done much
earlier in retrospect. When something appears seems to hinge on the society 
and culture.

  [Roleplaying games for example could have been done as soon as paper, pencil
and dice were invented:) ]

  This had very interesting consequenses for Traveller with its combination of
high and low tech world. For one thing it means that the TL tables are wrong;
A planet who, if they get the information that it exists, can produce jump-
drives or antigrav from TL9 might not invent either jump or antigrav until
TL 11 or higher if they had to discover it on their own.

  Sure, *some* planets might discover jump at TL 9, just as some might invent
roleplaying at TL 1 (Odysseus the RPG! Travel the Greek Islands in the Golden
Age! Smash hit everywhere in Rome!  'Nice Game' says Scipio Africanus!), and
in the contect of Traveller, those planets will pass this information on to
their neightbours and everyone else. Even the knowledge that something is
possible to do means that more than half the work is done.

  So the Traveller TL tables are only really usable within the Imperium. The
WBH achivement TL's are a step in the right direction but no enough.
 
>       Hans Rancke

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3267
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 91 18:49:29 -0800
From: Brian G. Vaughan <bvaughan@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Where can I get a copy of Book 8?  Anyone know anything about Newts?


>From the looks of things, I doubt DGP will ever publish the _Robots and Cyborgs_
supplement.  Since it is somewhat annoying to have a game universe that
makes heavy use of robots, with few rules on the abilities and limitations
of robots, and no rules on how to design them, I would like to get a copy
of Book 8.  Does anyone know where I can get a copy?

Also, I am interested in the minor race of Newts.  I understand that they are
supposed to hail from Antares, and that they are one of the few minor races
distributed throughout Imperial space.  I know what they look like, from a
few illustrations.  But that is all I know about them.  As I want to base
a campaign in the Antarean region, I would like to know more.  Would someone
please post some information--their homeworld location, and some information
on their society?  I would much appreciate it.

Oh, and one other question:  I understand there is a relatively new, updated
collection of sector data files on one of the TML repositories.  Which one?

Sorry, I just had to clean out my question file.

					Brian G. Vaughan
					bvaughan@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3268
Date:     Sun, 8 Dec 91 8:52:25 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (3265) Re: Let's try on our own

Just a short note...I'm using that antique Commodore again this morning.
 
In some respects, we are -already- "doing it on our own" here.  In practice
this means that the anarchist nature of the group seems to inhibit the start of
large coordinated projects.  I would think that we could and should encourage
people to post here, and for the 
archives anything that would be of potential interest to other GMs, but as
an all volunteer effort, I don't see us
rquesting people to work on projects that they are not interested in, to
fill the gaps.

I would certainly be interested in seeing other people's world descriptions,
especially those in subsectors of the Spinward Marches that I'm  a) not using
now and b) might use in the near future.
Five Sisters, would be perfect, Hans!

Rob Dean

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3269
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: d20 Task system
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 91 5:01:19 EST

I don't know if this was posted to TML or not, sorry if this has been
posted before.

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 26
Message 200       Thu Nov 28, 1991
LESTER.SMITH                 at 18:27 EST

Greetings again.

I'd like to take a minute to talk a bit about the D20 task system we're
planning for the Traveller revision.

First, the skill or attribute level you have is your target number for an
Average task. Easy is vs. twice that number; Very Easy versus four  times the
number. Difficult is vs. half the number; Very Difficult vs.  one-fourth. For
instance, a character with a skill level of 8 would be rolling for the
following numbers or less:
 Very Easy: 32
 Easy: 16
 Average: 8
 Difficult: 4
 Very Difficult: 2

If you don't have any skill at all, you roll percentile dice vs. your
controlling attribute. For instance, an Easy test of Observation, for a
character with no Observation skill but an Intelligence (Observation's
controlling attribute) of 14 would be 28% (percentile roll vs twice the
attribute level).

A roll of 20 always misses (5% chance), and a roll of 1 always hits ( (again a
5% chance), unless the referee decides otherwise.

Now for task philosophy. Mundane, everyday tasks are not rolled for. Does the
character have an applicable skill? Yes? Then he or she succeeds.  Every day
tasks with some risk of failure involved become Very Easy or  Easy. Success
means PERFECT PERFORMANCE; failure means less than perfect, depending upon how
badly the roll missed by. Example: I make my Navigation skill roll exactly,
and I enter the system right on target; I fail it by 2 points, and I miss my
window by enough distance to make my landing 2  hours late (or some such
determination by the referee).

Now, some people have been arguing that a character with skill level 1 in
Traveller has roughly a 50% chance of succeeding at an Average task, while a
character with a skill level of 1 in T2K2, for instance has only a 10% chance.
That's very true. But given the change in task philosophy, a character from MT
trying for an Average task with a skill level 1 would,  when converted to the
new system, be making a Very Easy task roll with a  skill level of 2--a 40%
chance of success. Couple this with the fact that new system characters tend
to consolidate their skill points, rather than dispersing them quite as much,
and that reasonable tests can be made vs  the related attribute, and I think
you'll find the new system works very nicely. It certainly won't leave a
universe full of bumbling fools, as  might have been suspected.

As I've said before, I realize that the new system FEELS different from the
2D6 one. And that's a valid point. But the 2D6 system has some  problems of
its own. My own complaints about it have always been that  tough tasks price
low skill levels right out of the market, and that  doesn't feel right to me
to have no chance at all if a character has at least a modicum of skill. For
instance, a MT character with a skill level of 2 has no chance of succeeding
with with a Difficult task. But the equivalent character in the new system
would have a skill level of 4,  needing a 2 or less for a Difficult task and a
1 or less for a Very  Difficult task.

Also, the 2D6 bell curve has always bothered me. (I realize I'm treading upon
sacred ground here, for some, but it's the truth.) A +1 modifier  does not
mean the same jump for a character with skill 10 as for one with skill 6, for
instance. In the new system, a +1 is a +1 is a +1.

Those are my comments for the moment. Any questions or comments? I'd be happy
to respond.

Sincerly,

 Les
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3270
Date: Mon,  9 Dec 91 08:31:09 -0500
From: hayes@ll.mit.edu (Tony Hayes)
Subject: Artificial Gravity via Flying Circles


>Ok, now when is such a ship going to be in zero G?  Well?  The only time
>you wouldn't be firing your engines is in Jump.  (Actually I have never
>read anything that says you can't use your maneuver drive in jump, but
>there is no reason to except in this particular case.)  {maybe our TML
>historian knows of a reason I do not...  Metlay?}
>
>At all other times a ship may fire it's engines to simulate gravitation.
>Even if the ship is just stationkeeping in orbit, the engines may be
>fired.  Just put a slow spin on the ship and accelerate at one G.  You will
>essentually be flying in a circle, but that won't affect a ship in orbit
>too much.  You might annoy some guy in the starport control tower with
>maneuvers like that, but then again it should be a standard tech 9 station
>keeping maneuver.

Flying the ship in circles would "plaster" the crew to the walls not the
floor.  Centripetal force and all that.  Spinning the ship won't work
either since it can only be spun about an axis passing through its center
of mass.  You could have two sections of the ship counter rotating thus
providing a nearly zero net angular momentum.  Access would only be possible
along the zero-g axis at the center but you could simulate gravity even
during orbits and in jump space.  2010 had a sample of a ship that used
rotation as a "artificial gravity" generator.  This still leaves the problems
of acceleration but you can't have everything.

>I would also think that a starship would need some sort of sensors that
>are capable of pinpointing the star to which the ship is going to jump
>to.  Radiation & Magnetic sensors just aren't gonna do it.  I think you
>are gonna need at least a telescope (light amplifier) and possibly a
>radar direction finder to locate the destination star by it's radio
>emmissions.  (I don't know much about astronomy but I do know that a
>radiation counter will not pinpoint a star against all the background
>radiation.  A magnetic sensor will be equally useless)

Radio emmisions are not that useful due to poor resolution - visible light
is better - stick with the telescope.  Radiations sensors - I don't remember
what kind of radiation these detect is it particle radiation (electrons
helium nuclei etc) or EM.  If its EM these will work fine.  Do the detection
in the UV - IR ranges - not problems.  Particle radiation would suffer
from cosmic background and non-linear flight paths.


Every now and then I just have to take some time to toss my 2 cents into
the ring! :-)



     T.L.Hayes                        |       hayes@ll.mit.edu
     MIT/Lincoln Laboratory           |           - or -
     Lexington, MA                    |  al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
     
     Got an AK-47 for his best friend, business the American way.
 	      -  Queensryche

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3271
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Buckyboats!?
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 91 10:24:19 PST

Hans asks what we might happen to know about C60 - which
is I thank, also called Fullerene.  It is a high temperature
superconductor.  Oh how I wish it were room-temp.  Oh well.

Saw a thing in James's December Scientific American that a
guy working for NEC in Japan found some tubes of this stuff
on the tips of the carbon arc filaments he was using to make
it.

Seems that since it is a natural geodesic, it tends to form 
balls naturally.  *Really* good lubircation.  Well, tubes
seem to form as helixes, and are about 100X stronger than
Kevlar (tm).  And the ends of the tubes heal themselves shut
when cut; the helix won't unravel.

I'd sure like to make a hull out of this stuff.  :=)
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3272
Date:     Mon, 9 Dec 91 14:04:59 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (3266) Funny TL's (was: Carbon 60)

Bertil writes:
> 
>   There is a lot of inventions that theoretically could have been done much
> earlier in retrospect. When something appears seems to hinge on the society 
> and culture.

Quite true...I _usually_ work under the assumption that Tech Level in Traveller
refers to the repair/manufacture level of the world, rather than the _use_
or _discovery_ level.

> [Roleplaying games for example could have been done as soon as paper, pencil
> and dice were invented:) ]

Aside: In 1987, I visited the British Museum in London on my honeymoon.  My
wife of four days (at the time) was a gamer, which was fortunate, because I
came to a display case in the Roman culture section containing ancient Roman
_20-sided_ dice.  I had to sit on the floor for a few minutes because I was 
laughing so hard.

>  This had very interesting consequenses for Traveller with its combination of
> high and low tech world. For one thing it means that the TL tables are wrong;
> A planet who, if they get the information that it exists, can produce jump-
> drives or antigrav from TL9 might not invent either jump or antigrav until
> TL 11 or higher if they had to discover it on their own.

If you consider the tech levels to refer to the level of industrial support
needed to manufacture large quantities of the items, most of the problems
will disappaer.  At least I think so.  As you say, TL9 means that you have
the ability to _build_ jump drives gvien a blueprint--deciding whether or
not the planet has heard of them is a job for the referee.

Rob Dean



------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Dec 11 21:00:22 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #271: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3273  09-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Trade and Commerce << TRADE AND COMMERCE REVI
3274  09-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: potential energy in the Traveller (and ot
3275  09-Dec-91 Brian G. Vaughan  Concept for Traveller III << Traveller III [w
3276  09-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Latest from GEnie << It's gotten rather quiet
3277  09-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    A Little Joke << Since it is mentioned in one
3278  09-Dec-91 "J.A.F.O."        Star-lust (Inter species relationships) << So
3279  10-Dec-91 sm@ncrsecp.copenh GENIE: Re: d20 Task system << [ Added GENIE t
3280  10-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Aircrafts and Forces << A long time ago Scott
3281  10-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: Flying in Circles << > From: hayes@ll.mit
3282  10-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C GENIE: ENERGY and Traveller: TNE << [Added GE

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3273
Date:     Mon, 9 Dec 91 14:24:39 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Trade and Commerce




TRADE AND COMMERCE REVISIONS

     I have been thinking about trade and commerce again in the last few 
days.  I don't have any solutions to the problem to suggest right now.  In 
fact, what I'm trying to do is to define the problem.  (-:

     Would we agree that the purpose of a trade system is to allow the 
referee to put enough money into a game to allow the players to maintain 
their own starship?  To do this, the system should not be so unbalanced as 
to make it too easy to win vast quantities of wealth, nor so difficult as 
to cause the players to go bankrupt every time they try it.  Ideally, it 
seems to me that it ought to be set up in a way that will make the profits 
proprotional to the risk...safe and steady will keep you eating, but a new 
starship will require some risks.  

     In order to design a new system, I think that it would be necessary to 
set the background with some decisions about Imperial economics.  Are 
planets mostly self-sufficient?  Do 'balance of trade' issues affect indi-
vidual merchants by making it difficult to sell things on backwater worlds 
with few trade connections to gain Imperial money?  Do the megacorporations 
tie up all of the steady trade in items with very high profit margins, 
leaving only occasional deals of this sort for the little guys?  Do planets 
routinely pass trade-restricting (or trade enhancing) legislation?  I think 
the answers to all of these questions are probably 'yes', but we've never 
been told so explicitly.

     I think it would also be very nice to get some idea of the volume of 
shipping available in various regions of the Imperium--even something as 
simple as the 'battalion strenght of armies' table from the Rebellion 
Sourcebook or the 5th Frontier War articles in JTAS would be a help.

     Hmmm...maybe I do have a few suggestions after all...if I was piecing 
together rules from the existing versions, I'd use something like the 
original Book 2 rules with tech level effects added in for manufactured 
goods.  I'd also modify some of the products to reduce the potential prof-
its from them--if you ever played with the old system, you'll remember that 
machine tools, radioactives, gems, and computers were the cargos of choice.

Rob Dean




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3274
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 91 14:06 EST
Subject: Re: potential energy in the Traveller (and other) universe

: From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
: Subject: Re: potential energy in the Traveller (and other) universe
: To: gsw@whservd.att.com
: 
: You wrote:
: >								Grav
: >   drives must use as much energy as the difference in gravitational
: >   potential energy.  Jump drives cannot jump to a higher point of
: >   potential energy without a commensurate cost.  By the way, this
: >   is a very good reason why jumps can never be into open space,
: >   but only into a star system, and wouldn't crash you into a star
: >   or planet.
: 
: Perhaps you can answer a question which has bothered me for a while,
: about potential energy.  Potential energy is based on your distance
: from a body exerting a gravitational pull, isn't it?  So how much
: energy do I have from being at a height of about 4 light years from
: Alpha Centauri?  If a ship jumps to a point halfway between here and
: Alpha Centauri, it has a lot of potential energy by being at a great
: distance from Earth and the Sun, but has less potential energy from
: Alpha Centauri than it did when it was in our solar system.

Quite true.  The ship gained potential energy w.r.t. Sol and lost
potential energy w.r.t. Alpha Centauri.  It also gained and lost
potential energy from a number of other stars and various celestial
bodies.  Since gravity drops off with the square of distance, the
energy differences w.r.t. Sol and Alpha Centauri should (I think)
dominate the equation, though, especially if you assume a roughly
uniform distribution of stars in the vicinity.  This might not be
valid near a nova cloud or black hole or quasar or similar such
phenomenon, I guess.

: > o Don't make Traveller or MegaTraveller stuff obsolete.  Provide for
: >   conversions to the new system.  Where things are changed in the
: >   new system, don't make them so different that you can't simply
: >   "fake it" with old characters/designs/etc.
: 
: This, of course, is going to be a real neat trick, given that you want
: the physics violations of Traveller and MegaTraveller fixed.

True, but I don't think Traveller was THAT broken.  Some of the
stats might have to be altered or given further constraints.

The physics violations may not be as much of a problem as you
think, though.  For ships, I'd settle for having all of the
types of equipment and weaponry carried over.  Then, if I'm
not too concerned with the physics behind what's happening
(I know that my ship is capable of a two parsec jump, carries
five triple beam laser turrets, and is capable of four G
acceleration from rest, for instance), I can go with what
I've got.  If there are enough example ships, I should be
able to guess at values that I didn't already know (such as
damage points or batteries bearing, if these systems change).

If I am concerned with everything being correct in the new
system (or matching physics better, or whatever), then I'm
going to want to convert the ship to the new system anyway.
It's still important that I have a starting point, though.

Characters are similar, but a bit more difficult.  I should
be able to look at an old Traveller character and know what
his stats and abilities roughly are in the new system,
without being forced to convert the character by hand.  This
could mean, for instance, doubling ability scores and adding
three to stats (as a rough approximation).  Again, if you
are converting characters to the new system, this is probably
not sufficient, but is a good starting point.

: > o Does anyone else out there like the 6-sided dice?  I always
: >   identified Traveller with 6-siders and the 2d6 bell curves used
: >   for everything.
: 
: Me too.  I'd settle for xD6 instead of 2D6, because then the piles of
: dice I've accumulated for use with Star Wars will have another use.

I'd settle for xD6 also.  Years ago, a friend of mine and I
invented a system for game based on TRON (right when the movie
came out).  We used 4d6-4 (or 4 dice labelled 0-5) for every
roll, in order to get a steep bell curve from 0-20.  From the
word I've been hearing, however, it seems like it's already
been decided to use d20's.

Actually, if you want realistic rolls, you should provide for
open-ended die rolls.  For example, use a d12 numbered from
0-11, where 11 means roll again and add 10, and 0 on the first
roll only means roll again and subtract from 0.  This makes it
possible for anyone to succeed or fail tremendously at any
task.

I think it's a matter of taste when it comes down to it.  I
prefer good old 2d6, but would live with a d20 roll.

If GDW decides to use d20, however, they should NOT make the
low rolls mean success.  People naturally tend to think of
high rolls as success.  IMHO, although I remember somewhere
(was it the TML?) where a study/survey was made and they
found out the same thing.

: -- 
:  "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott
: 
:  Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
:  UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk
: 

Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3275
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 91 14:21:28 -0800
From: Brian G. Vaughan <bvaughan@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Concept for Traveller III


Traveller III [working notes]
- -----------------------------
1.  1991 AD:  GDW begins work on revision of roleplaying game
		set in distant future.  DGP publishes last supplement
		and abandons game system.
2.  1991 AD:  Hardcore fans protest rumored changes, but to no avail.
3.  1992 AD:  HIWG and TML form alliance in opposition to GDW.
4.  1993 AD:  GDW, enraged by HIWG/TML alliance, unleashes Dreaded Virus
		to destroy GEnie and InterNet.
5.  1996 AD:  Dreaded Virus, completely out of control, wipes out all
		advanced computer networks, leaving world in chos.
7.  1999 AD:  World War III.

						Brian G. Vaughan
						bvaughan@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3276
Date:     Mon, 9 Dec 91 18:54:35 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Latest from GEnie

It's gotten rather quiet over there in the last few days.  I'll continue
monitoring on an occasional basis, and transfer anything back that the
'officials' have to say, but full two-way transfer is ending on Friday.

Back to our regularly scheduled TML chatter...

Rob


 ************
Topic 3         Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE                     at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions    

This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
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Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 435       Fri Dec 06, 1991
C.BUSH3 [Clay]               at 22:38 EST
 
This is my first post to this topic since my machine failed 11/9/91.

   1) Adapting the rules to the T2000 system is not going to kill MT. Changing
to the task system did not invalidate ANY classic Traveller adventure.
   Changing the world generation system is the only thing that would
fundamentally invalidate previous work. All those world descriptions, hand-
generated subsectors and sectors, etc., becoming invalid would alienate
current players.
   The ship design and combat system is under severe attack from several
directions. Power from fission and fusion plants is said to be way too low,
and the new agility rule isn't liked by many. I would be happy to see jump
plants and fuel swell back up to classic Traveller percentages, with a
compensating increase in power plant outputs.

   2) Traveller has always been more action-oriented than setting oriented.
Someone referred to some RPGs as being "poetry"-based. In Traveller, this has
meant that Imperial society was remarkably siimilar to twentieth century
Earth.
   To me this threw away half the wonder of science fiction. Sure, you have
alien races--outside the Imperium. The Alien Modules and Books were very
significant because they provided flesh-and-blood outsiders to interact with.
   By comparison, RL: Legionnaire goes the other direction of playing
characters in a specified society: the Latinized Galactic Empire. This could
be too specific for many tastes.
   I prefer the ability to tailor the rules to a different universe than the
Third Imperium, in case I want to run a campaign based on a particular si-fi
universe. This permits me to run the Imperium as more feudal than most
referees do.
   This point isn't sharp, but the "modern-day society" view colors many
people's conceptions and deserves people's attention.

   3a) The Rebellion is not an overthrow of the Traveller storyline. It
appears so if people think in terms of modern nation-states. Historic FEUDAL
empires often fell apart with startling suddenness. (They also reformed if
there were only two sides...)
   View the Imperium as a Holy Roman Empire cemented by modern education and a
strong central army. It's feudal, and people consider themselves from
Vland/Vland or from Spinward Marches as much as they consider themselves
Imperial citizens. YOU DO NOT HAVE MODERN DAY NATIONAL IDENTITY WITH THE
STATE. If the central military weakens itself fighting a civil war, large
regions become self- governing.
   A rump central state surrounded by local powers was not unheard of. It
USUALLY took one or more generations to reconquer the old frontiers, if the
separation did not become permanent.
   3b) The growth of the factions is sometimes said to be sudden and hard to
rationalize. The division of Alexander the Great's domains shows how fragile
feudal organizations can be (although that was scarcely an established
empire), and how several factions can quickly arise. (Yes, two is more
normal.) Still, the first Chinese empire collapsed when three clan leaders
killed the Emperor, and then fought over the spoils.
   3c) Without development of trains and telegraphs, the United States would
almost certainly have splintered asunder--and stayed asunder--long before
1860. The Imperium only has an xboat courier net and no courier system ever
kept an empire together.
   Given a sufficient shock, like 1117, the Imperium floated apart. And
because the issue had not been decided in 1117, there wasn't enough central
power to bring the pieces together again. So, I don't accept that Star
Viking's setting--a specific period in history--is wrong or a corruption of
the Traveller storyline.
   Yes, a government collapse can be depressing. Ask a white Russian living in
the Ukraine. Most of these territories are at peace internally, however.
   Yes, dividing formerly unified territories can be violent. Look at
Yugoslavia and at the India/Pakistan partition.

   4) A computer virus destroys all computers in Imperia. Is this possible?
   RINGWORLD's history involves development of a bacteria that attacked the
Ringworlder's metaconductors. Due to the nature of the Ringworld, the
inhabitants could not restore their civilization. Such events could happen or
be made to happen in Imperia.
   Imperia, however, has a diversity of technologies reflecting a diversity of
races. No logical or biological virus could affect all branches. However, the
Imperial government use standardized TL15 equipment, and could afford to
import same to lower tech worlds.
   An attack on the hi-tech computers would drastically weaken the navies,
bureaucracies, communications, and power of all factional governments. They
would lose control of border regions and areas that weren't self-supporting.
Recovery processes would develop locally and would fragment Imperia's economy
and culture even more.
   It is noteworthy that HIWG-UK development postulates a cyberpunk culture in
parts of Gushemege, and recent TNS items suggest the residents of TL16
Shakumash bear Lucan little goodwill. Developing a nannite/bacteria that eats
TL15 silicon wafers sure wouldn't help Lucan or Dulinor. (And TL16 stuff may
be safe... Hmm...)
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 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
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Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 100       Fri Dec 06, 1991
C.BUSH3 [Clay]               at 22:39 EST

   I'm back after a long absence. (Since 11/9.)

LOREN
   I would be willing to contribute/test/evaluate any revised ship design
and/or combat system.

THE COMPUTER VIRUS
   See the end of my post in Topic 3. It's a suggestion.

SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REVISION
   Constructive ones only, too.

   Leave the world generation system alone. Too many players and referees have
rolled up individual systems (extended generation), subsector and sector
listings (basic generation), and programs based on them. Changing it would be
a critical discontinuity that would hurt sales of the new rules.
   Years ago I noted the original basic system's unscientific bias toward
nitro-oxy atmosphere worlds. The later extended system, for example, produces
very different results in the number of habitable worlds. There's an article
in an old Colorado gaming newsletter titled "It's a Cold Universe Out There."
   My opinion is that this section works for users, and should not be changed.

   I would like to see a "World Book" in the new rules. Players Manual,
Referees Manual, and Imperial Encyclopedia was one way to organize the rules.
I prefer world generation and development in a seperate book like in the black
books.
  This World Book would include elements from WBH, if possible, and I like the
"Aspects of Culture" from Challenge magazine. (I bet GDW can find it faster
than I could.)
  Front section: for players, would have the comparative technology charts and
sample vehicles (planetary transportation).
  Second section: the basic generation system, subsector and sector mapping
forms.
  Third section: the extended generation system and the forms to record it.
  Fourth section: generating a technology profile, "Aspects of Culture,"
government form, generating a religion.
  Fifth section: rules for mapping planet surfaces and forms for surface maps.
Generating animal encounter tables. (Face it, if they aren't on the surface
and out of a city, animal encounters don't occur to PCs.)

  Revise starship design, and put it in a supplement. I strongly support this
idea.
  I favor increasing power plant output to match engineering estimates made by
those with some training in that area. This may also involve reducing fuel for
fission plants and such: I don't know.
  Make jump drives and their fuel larger. Actually, MT reduced fuel
consumption from the black books.
  Relate agility to maneuver drives. With the black book's formula, I
rationalized that agility represented the ability to supply power to the
maneuver drives while powering weapons. Also, limit maximum agility to the
maneuver ability.
  Limiting craft to 6-G has generated controversy. Yes, modern fighter craft
can achieve much higher speeds. Modern aircraft CARRIERS, however, do not
maneuver at even 1G! Emphasize the role of inertial comp in big craft, and
provide rules for G effects that would permit craft with _everyone in couchs
and everything tied down_ to design for higher speeds. Then you will have very
fast _small craft_.

  TWO LEFT FIELD OPINIONS:
  1. I do not think design sequences need be strictly compatible between
vehicles and starships. Aircraft and mechanical engineers who design engines
for similar output produce different results: the aircraft engineers make
smaller, lighter, but much more expensive engines.
  2. Limit meson weapons to the same ranges as energy weapons (currently two
hexes in space combat). Meson decay has very short time spans, and even
"accelerating mesons to relativisitic speeds" will not give the same range as
particle accelerators.
  This would have major effects for starship combat, and for planetary defense
and bombardment. But I think the science supports it far than it supports the
current system.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 101       Sat Dec 07, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar]          at 00:44 EST
 
Clay speaks at last:
 <Virus suggestion up in Topic 3>
   I like it.  Now we have to convince GDW.

   Still, Loren and Co. have told us to wait for the whole story.  How long we
have to wait will influence the nature of our response (if it doesn't affect
the actual content, it will make certain opinions rather irate).

 <Make jump drives and their fuel larger. Actually, MT reduced fuel
consumption from the black books.>
   MT Jump Drives are exactly the same size as High Guard J-Drives.  Only the
fuel comsumption has dropped.
   For a 100-ton example:

               J1     J2     J3     J4     J5     J6
 Book 2        ?+10  10+20   ?+30  15+40   ?+50  20+60
 High Guard    2+10   3+20   4+30   5+40   6+50   7+60
 MegaTrav      2+10   3+15   4+20   5+25   6+30   7+35

   The Book 2 and High Guard numbers are deceptive, since a certain power
plant rating was also required, while MT Jump Drives operate in isolation. 
Because of the current explanation of Jump Drive, I prefer the isolation
approach.  Alternate (non-Imperium universe) technologies might do it the
other way.
   As for increasing fuel consumption of J-Drives:  If you must, as long as
overall starship fuel requirements stay about where they are. Again, I prefer
the MT version.  Since J-Drives are not rated in specific power terms, any
revision of Powerplants need not touch Jump Drives.

 <Relate agility to maneuver drives...>
   Unlike a great many folks who have argued this point before me, I do not
see a big problem with MT agility.  Or rather, I don't see the same problem. 
The ship Rob Dean posted to Topic 4 recently is a good example.  MT does not
tie Agility to Maneuver rating, but DOES limit it to 6.  Unlike the
technological reasons for a 6G ceiling to Thrusters, there is no reason for
such a limit on Agility.  None.
   To solve this problem, look at the description of Thruster technology in
SOpM.  Here we are told that M-Drives can overload to 400% for brief periods,
and that they can produce reduced thrust in directions other than 'forward'. 
Elsewhere in SOpM we are told that Artificial Gravity technology is unstable
over 6G, and only useful for industrial purposes which do not require a
sustained field (this leaves out M-Drives, I think, and is the reason for the
6G limit some people are complaining about).
   Based on this, I would define Agility as the ship's ability to produce
overdrive thrust IN ANY DIRECTION.  Agility is thus limited to 4 times the
normal rating of the drives, with no other limit (no stopping at 6).  Note
that since the drives are being run AT 400% (not +400%), Agility is limited to
3 times thrust unless no normal thrust is being generated (100% to thrust;
300% to Agility).
   There is a catch, however.  Agility would be based on LOADED weight (or
'current' weight for advanced types), and would almost certainly do bad things
to the Thrusters if kept up for any length of time (those of you with SFB
experience: think 'Orions').  The SOpM says that a good Engineer is required
for any serious overdriving, and I must agree.
   If the circumstances of too much overdrive can be added to whatever becomes
the combat system, then all Agility become 'Emergency' Agility. This will
counteract the ability of highly specialized ships to potentially dodge lasers
(Agility 15+).  Oh yes, Inertial Compensation is also limited to 6Gs, so high
Agilities will throw things around regardless.

 <Limiting craft to 6-G has generated controversy...>
   I agree with this entire paragraph, but would point out that (according to
SOpM) Thrusters are unstable over 6Gs, and Fusion Rockets cannot thrust
sideways (without blowing up), thus limiting both as Agility Generators at
high G (see above).  By giving Fusion Rockets a different Agility Limit, the
high possible thrusts are balanced out ("He may be fast, but he can't dodge
like a Thruster ship.").  Doubly unstable Thrusters are their own reward.

 <I do not think design sequences need be strictly compatible between vehicles
and starships...>
   Agreed.  The goal is to able to USE them together.  As long as I know what
to do if that Destroyer shoots at aircraft (or cars, or boats), then having
several design systems is not a big problem.

 <Limit meson weapons to the same ranges as energy weapons...>
   YES!  YES!  YES!
   This change would give meaning to the PA again.  By the way, High Guard PA
weapons had better to-hit numbers than the Meson Gun.  This should be
reinstated over the fiasco of the MT ship combat tables. MT made a laughing
stock of the Spinal PA (not that it wasn't a problem in High Guard, but MT
made it worse).
   On a general note, the ability of small ships to affect large ones needs to
be addressed.  The current system does not reflect the 'reality' of TAS News
items and other Imperial literature.  The Neo system should be true to its
background.

 Farstar
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Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 102       Sat Dec 07, 1991
B.BORICH [Kagekiha]          at 05:53 EST
 
     The problem I and most others seem to have with the virus runs
 into the following:
     1.  Designing/making it (easiest to solve, I'd vote for nannites
           aside from the fact that Imperial tech quite apparently
           doesn't have this capability yet, though it could be explained
           away as an ancient find perhaps, this makes it hard for the
           Imps to combat, but easy for the Ancients, it would also
           be versatile enough to effect imperial TLs and capabilities.
           Of course you still might have the below problems, except
           for 4).
     2.  Keeping it secret
     3.  Spreading it and having it work at similar times, or at least
         not be identified for years.
     4.  Different TL's

     Clay mentioned the Ringworld semiconducter as an example, while I have
 previously considered this, there is still the problem of options
 2-4 above. While the Ringworld is somewhat as large as the Imperium, in
 number of worlds contained, the Ringworld is a lot faster to travel around.
     It takes years to cross the Imperium from end to end with jump drive,
 doing this on the ringworld would take about 10 days max at a leisurely
 pace using jump.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 103       Sun Dec 08, 1991
V.UJCIK [Duke James]         at 13:01 EST
 
29 Loren,
  And the reason they were returned was because I hadn't lived at that address
for over three years.  Someone there failed to update my address -- one of the
reasons that I cancelled my sub to Challenge, I didn't get any when I moved
and repeated attempts with letters (4) and phone calls (5) failed to get my
address changed over a one year period.  
  My point is that if GDW can't input a simple address change into a database,
it's no wonder we have MT!

<FLAME OFF>

     Jim
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Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 104       Sun Dec 08, 1991
D.CHEEVER                    at 14:58 EST
 
A bit more time to consider things have led to the following additional
thoughts... Scale: I think that it is important to give careful consideration
to scale going into this revision. The Imperium is large to the extent that it
would be totally impossible to provide a density of support for the entire
thing. As the new rules are intended to provide an INTRODUCTION for NEW
PLAYERS, remember that pages devoted to the big picture (such  as most MT
material) take away from the space that can be devoted to  material ready for
immediate referee use. I would like to see any  background material in the
begining rule set focus in great detail on at best a couple of worlds. Just
something to get them into the game and playing UNTIL further enlarged
material comes out. If you want to put a few spaceships into it make them ones
produced at local yards and give full background and deck plans. If you want
trade to go on develop an economic background that gives the referee something
to work with and reveal to the players. Vehicles in the basic rules should all
have  obvious uses in the limited setting in the rules. Don't have a mis mash
of material equipment and background from all over the Imperium. Make it
totally complete and totally unreliant on any other published MT or Classic
material. Combat: I think that it is important, especially in introductory
adventures to have combat always be the last or worst choice of resolution
series.  Combat tends to come natural to players (especially ones who have a 
strong T2000 background), but in most cases it should not be the preferred
method. Highlight what ever mechanism is used to resolve conflict with out
resource to arms. Set a strong tone for the game.

Thanks,

Dave Cheever

P.S. As posts on borad 20 will indicate Jim is not alone in his trouble with
addresses.....
 ------------




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3277
Date:     Mon, 9 Dec 91 18:56:06 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  A Little Joke

Since it is mentioned in one of the notes from GEnie I just mailed, I thought
I ought to put up my "Prey-class Target Drone", designed as a protest 
against the current agility system.  (-:

Rob Dean





Prey class Reusable Target Drone TL15

     The Prey class was designed for the Imperial Navy, and is intended to
serve as a target in fleet exercises.  In order to make the craft as hard 
to hit as possible, all unnecessary equipment (such as propulsion systems)
has been left off of the design.

  CraftID: Prey class Target Drone, TL15, MCr272.54
     Hull: 86/215, Disp=95, Config=4USL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=2601.26t,
           Loaded=2604.52t
    Power: 80/160, Fusion=21600Mw, Dur=4.3hrs
     Loco: none, Agility=44 (Excess energy=21597.36Mw)
     Comm: Radio=Continental
  Sensors: PassEMS=VDist(50km), PassEnScan=Formidable
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+51
  Control: Computer=5*3, LargeHoloDisplay*1, HoloLonk*1
    Accom:  Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*1, Env=basic env, basic  ls
    Other: Fuel=46.6kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Strong



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3278
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 91 15:00 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxb.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: Star-lust (Inter species relationships)

Someone mentioned the low opinion the Solomani must have of inter-species
relationships...... Well sadly for the racial purists at Sol-Sec they share a
planet with THE race most likely to get upto sexual hi-jinx with ANY vaguely
compatible species....... The Dolphin!  The geneers at Gen-Assist were unable
to eliminate the "rescue fever" from the cetacean psyche so I see no reason
why the uninhibited nature of the Dolphin sexual behaviour would've gone too!
 Un-uplifted dolphins engage in sexual play with -ANYTHING- from dolphins of
either gender, to pool toys , water inlets and in the case of the TV star (loved
by kiddies everywhere) 'Flipper' a female trainer!  
  As with the concepts of property the Dolph's probably 'play along'  with human
taboo's to fit in.  But if a Dolph' feels that it's Ok or maybe just wants to 
shock someone..... 
  David Brin's 'uplift' books eg. startide rising give good Dolph' characters
including a Dolph' who comes onto one of the human crew......
   as the man said 'thy dolphin was no lustier.....'

 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3279
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 11:30:00 MET
From: sm@ncrsecp.copenhagen.NCR.COM
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 11:30:52 MET
From: sm@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM (Sven Munther)
Subject: GENIE: Re: d20 Task system

[ Added GENIE to subjec tline so Carl can forward to GEnie - James ]

LESTER.SMITH writes :

>I'd like to take a minute to talk a bit about the D20 task system we're
>planning for the Traveller revision.
>
>First, the skill or attribute level you have is your target number for an
>Average task. Easy is vs. twice that number; Very Easy versus four  times the
>number. Difficult is vs. half the number; Very Difficult vs.  one-fourth. For
>instance, a character with a skill level of 8 would be rolling for the
>following numbers or less:
> Very Easy: 32
> Easy: 16
> Average: 8
> Difficult: 4
> Very Difficult: 2

Are these numbers supposed to be roled with a d20 ? Then very high skill
levels are going to be needed. What about attributes - do they add to the
number ?

>If you don't have any skill at all, you roll percentile dice vs. your
>controlling attribute. For instance, an Easy test of Observation, for a
>character with no Observation skill but an Intelligence (Observation's
>controlling attribute) of 14 would be 28% (percentile roll vs twice the
>attribute level).

28% chance without any skill for an easy task. That is better chance than
skill level 2 - almost skill level 3. If these numbers for some reason are 
to be rolled with a d10 (maybe he forgot to convert from T2000) then it is
still better than skill level 1.

>Now, some people have been arguing that a character with skill level 1 in
>Traveller has roughly a 50% chance of succeeding at an Average task, while a
>character with a skill level of 1 in T2K2, for instance has only a 10% chance.
>That's very true. But given the change in task philosophy, a character from MT
>trying for an Average task with a skill level 1 would,  when converted to the
>new system, be making a Very Easy task roll with a  skill level of 2--a 40%
>chance of success. Couple this with the fact that new system characters tend
>to consolidate their skill points, rather than dispersing them quite as much,
>and that reasonable tests can be made vs  the related attribute, and I think
>you'll find the new system works very nicely. It certainly won't leave a
>universe full of bumbling fools, as  might have been suspected.

Does he mean that :

Very Easy ~ Routine
Easy      ~ Difficult
Average   ~ Formidable
Difficult ~ Impossible 

This would give very roughly the same chances - but it is a very strange
naming they have given the new task levels.

>As I've said before, I realize that the new system FEELS different from the
>2D6 one. And that's a valid point. But the 2D6 system has some  problems of
>its own. My own complaints about it have always been that  tough tasks price
>low skill levels right out of the market, and that  doesn't feel right to me
>to have no chance at all if a character has at least a modicum of skill. For
>instance, a MT character with a skill level of 2 has no chance of succeeding
>with with a Difficult task. But the equivalent character in the new system
             ^^^^^^^^^
I guess he means Formidable

>would have a skill level of 4,  needing a 2 or less for a Difficult task and a
>1 or less for a Very  Difficult task.
>
>Also, the 2D6 bell curve has always bothered me. (I realize I'm treading upon
>sacred ground here, for some, but it's the truth.) A +1 modifier  does not
>mean the same jump for a character with skill 10 as for one with skill 6, for
>instance. In the new system, a +1 is a +1 is a +1.

Yes a +1 is a +1 one with the new system. Still some times a +1 cuts your 
chance of failure to half. The 2d6 system is also an unfair, but at least
it does look like a probability bell curve. Bell curves are good enough
for The Real World (TM), but not for GDW ?  :->

>Those are my comments for the moment. Any questions or comments? I'd be happy
>to respond.
>
>Sincerly,
>
> Les

I have read the task system in DC and now these suggestions for the new
traveller revision. I am afraid they are changing the best skill resolution
system on the market to something very inferior.

I am also afraid that everybody who matters on GDW already have made up
their mind on this subject.

Sven


PS  Rob, please pass this to Genie



- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven Munther                       Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.dk
NCR Corporation                    Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.com
Systems Engineering-Copenhagen     ...!mcsun!dkuug!ncrsecp!sm


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3280
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Aircrafts and Forces
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 11:51:44 MET

  A long time ago Scott wrote about aircraft speeds and thrusts and about that
they didn't match up with COACC.

  The normal way an aircraft work is that the thrust of the engine decrease
or is constant while the counterforce from the air resistance grows. When 
they are equal, the plane stops accelerating. Some aircrafts, like the
fuel-guzzling Saab JA-37 Viggen will be at bingo fuel long before this happens,
so their real top speed is unknown in a way.
  Different engine types have also different thrust vs speed charts, which is
why ramjets/after burners are such a good idea at great speeds.

  Thus you can reach very high speeds with a low thrust engine, if the a/c has
low air resistance and the thrust of the engine don't decrease. The anti-grav
of Traveller gives a thrust dependent on power input (ref Striker). Exactly
how they manage this non-physical feat is unknown, but a vehicle using it 
should have a top speed only dependent on the relationship between air
resistance and thrust.

  As for aircrafts, it would depend on air resistance versus thrust and the 
type of engine used.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3281
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 09:54 EST
Subject: Re:  Flying in Circles

> From: hayes@ll.mit.edu (Tony Hayes)
> Subject: (3270) Artificial Gravity via Flying Circles
> 
> Flying the ship in circles would "plaster" the crew to the walls not the
> floor.  Centripetal force and all that.  [ ... ]

It's exactly because of centripetal acceleration that this works.  The
ship would fly in a circle, accelerating TOWARDS the center.  Since the
floors are towards the back of the ship, this works.  Here's an ASCII
picture:
                <-- path of ship

               *****
            ***     ***
          **           **
         *               *
         *               *
      | *      center     * ^
      | *        of       * |
      v *     rotation    * |
         *               *
         *       ^       *
          **    / \    **
            *** |_| ***
               */^\*
                 ^  ship is accelerating TOWARDS the center of rotation
                 ^
                -->

Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3282
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 10:54 EST
Subject: GENIE: ENERGY and Traveller: TNE

[Added GEnie to the Subject line so Carl will forward it -- James]

These are some strong recommendations that I have for the new
Traveller.  I'm not going to go into ALL of the scientific
detail, but I hope that the folks at GDW take the time to do
so.

o Correct fusion and fission power plant output and fuel
  consumption.  It should be simple to get the correct
  numbers for fission plants.  For fusion plants, you
  must find the energy gained from a fusion reaction.  A
  science textbook is probably a good source for this --
  if I had the information handy I'd post it.

  For fusion, there is a problem with fuel -- ordinary
  hydrogen does not have enough (or any) neutrons to fuse
  into helium.  Thus, current fusion uses heavy hydrogen
  (deuterium or tritium) which is found in SMALL amounts
  along with normal hydrogen.  Refinement of fuel could
  then mean either selecting out all of the heavy hydrogen
  or better yet MAKING most of the hydrogen "heavy".  It
  could also be possible to burn normal hydrogen, but you
  would need to find a way to "donate" neutrons to the
  reaction.  Note that this would probably be harder and
  more damaging to the reactor than pre-treating the
  hydrogen in the first place.

After adjusting the power plant output, you'll HAVE to make
this next change:

o Correct fuel amounts required for maneuvering.  It is
  currently possible for a ship to gain more kinetic
  energy from its maneuver drives than it puts into them.
  This makes impossible things such as perpetual motion
  machines not only possible, but you get energy to boot.

  The formula for kinetic energy is:

             1   2
         E = - mv
             2

  where m is the mass of the ship and v its (relative)
  velocity.

  It MUST cost MORE than this much energy to accelerate
  a ship of mass m to a new velocity v.  Currently it
  costs LESS in many cases.

  I could convert this equation into a more usable
  form, but the idea is the same -- you can't get energy
  for free, or else the whole universe falls apart.

  It's been a while, but I once used this equation to
  determine how much fuel would be required for a
  fusion plant to accelerate a ship to 0.1c.  Assuming
  all deuterium, I think that 1/2 of the ship needed
  to be fuel.  That drops down to about 4% (I think) of
  the ship if antimatter is used (assuming total energy
  conversion -- I don't know what the real output of an
  antimatter reactor would be).

  By the way, fusion powered ships should have an
  exhaust -- all of that helium being created as a
  by-product.  It would be dead weight otherwise.  Of
  course it doesn't have to be coming out of the ship
  at 20,000 degrees -- the fusion reactor could even
  use cold fusion, or the energy from the excess heat
  might be tapped somehow.  In fact, it doesn't even
  have to be helium, in theory.  You could even put
  out "normal" air, if your reactor is capable of
  enough control over the fusion reaction.

  I think you'll find that if you make the energy
  costs for propulsion reasonable, you won't need to
  play around with 6G limits -- simply limit the
  power output of power plants and make maneuver
  drives capable of high-G thrust inefficient at
  lower G's.  Then it would be POSSIBLE to design
  ships with high accelerations, but only FEASIBLE
  for smaller ships.  Sure, someone could build a
  dreadnought which is all power plant and high-
  consumption drives, but it would need to be
  refueled hourly and would be exorbitantly
  expensive.

  Also note that grav drives must ALSO use more
  energy -- they must use more energy than the
  combination of difference in gravitational
  potential energy PLUS the difference in kinetic
  energy (the same is true for all drives, but I'm
  assuming that maneuver drives simply impart a
  vector of acceleration, to which gravity must be
  added).  This post is long enough, though, so I
  won't go into the gory details.

I hope these suggestions are taken in earnest.

Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com)

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #272: Msgs 3282-3297
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 21:00:37 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Dec 11 21:00:33 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #272: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3283  10-Dec-91 surman@zulu.lgs.l Re: (3273) Trade and Commerce << Rob Dean bro
3284  10-Dec-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e Re: A Little Joke (Agility) << This little dr
3285  10-Dec-91 mccord@equinox.un Technical question... << Here's something I t
3286  06-Dec-91 Adam Naylor       Re: General Traveller Questions << [Forwarded
3287  08-Dec-91 Adam Naylor       Re: General Traveller Questions << [Forwarded
3288  07-Dec-91 Adam Naylor       Re: General Traveller Questions << [Forwarded
3289  10-Dec-91 James T Perkins   Re: General Traveller Questions << I skipped 
3290  10-Dec-91 James T Perkins   New sector data location << Brian G. Vaughan 
3291  10-Dec-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Flying in Circles << Hi, Flying in circles to
3292  11-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Just when you thought it was safe to read the
3293  11-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Edmund's Looking for ME?! AAAGH! I'M NOT HERE
3294  11-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha An E-tribe called TML << I hope nobody takes 
3295  11-Dec-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e Re: Misc. Questions... << just a couple tidbi
3296  11-Dec-91 TML Administrator Re: (3288) Re: General Traveller Questions <<
3297  11-Dec-91 James T Perkins   Re: Traveller (Again but not for long) << Ada
3298  11-Dec-91 TML Administrator TML Admin Deluged << For some people of late 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3283
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 10:00:43 CST
From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: Re: (3273) Trade and Commerce

Rob Dean brought up a topic that I find frustrating. Trade and
commerce. RPG's  don't explain it very well and sf authors don't
write about either (except for a few, of which Jack Vance's Demon
Princes novels offer one of the better explanations but only for
money not credit).

How is credit handled? Credit cards would present major problems
outside of a star system. Who would honor them? Granted the megacor-
porations would have a system for their employees but what about the
average citizen or player characters. Once you've mustered out you're
on your own. I still have problems with the retirement pay. There is
no way to keep track of payments from one system to another.

The same for paying the notes on a starship. What prevents anyone from
saying that they paid their note at their last stop a jump or 2 away.
By the time they could check it out the ship could be gone. Or the
simple fact of a late payment. At the time and distances involved
minor mistakes could have major repercussions.

Well, anyway here's some of my comments on Rob's posting.

> Would we agree that the purpose of a trade system is to allow the
> referee to put enough money into a game to allow the players to 
> maintain their own starship? 

I wouldn't say this. The trade system is an important part of the
economics of the system. Businesses look at cash flow. When money,
goods & services exchange hands that's when profits are made. The more
money introduced from outside the system the greater the chances of
profit.

> In order to design a new system, I think that it would be necessary to 
> set the background with some decisions about Imperial economics.

Definitely. Now how do we do it? Designing the basic mechanics of a
game is relatively easy. It's the background info that requires
detailed research.

> Are planets mostly self-sufficient?  

I think they are. However, since there are higher tech level planets
they would need to import the higher tech level goods to support the
high tech level starships that visit and to raise the general tech
level of the planet. Generally the higher the tech level the better
the living conditions so lower level planets would want to become
like their higher level counterparts.

Actually, that needs to be modified a bit. Established planets would
be mostly self sufficient. The newly colonized or mining worlds would
be highly dependent on outside sources because the industrial base
is not yet complete.

> Do 'balance of trade' issues affect individual merchants by making it 
> difficult to sell things on backwater worlds with few trade connections 
> to gain Imperial money? 

Backwater worlds would probably be happy they get visited by starships
and would buy everything they could afford. Most sf literature is
written under this assumption. These planets are not profitable for
the big outfits but are for the little guys, the 'typical' tramp
freighter ships that have lower overhead.
 
> Do the megacorporations tie up all of the steady trade in items with
> very high profit margins, leaving only occasional deals of this sort
> for the little guys? 

I would think this depends upon the particular items and the quantity
involved. If a market produced only a small quantity of something it
probably wouldn't be worth it even if it was very profitable (Piper's
Cosmic Computer novel had a planet that produced brandy that was
very expensive on Terra but they could only sell it to the infrequent
ships that passed through the system and then at a very reduced rate.
They also salvaged military equipment but again couldn't sell it for
what it was worth.)

> Do planets  routinely pass trade-restricting (or trade enhancing)
> legislation?

I think this would depend upon the government type. A Dictatorship
would want to keep the populace ignorant so would enforce strong
import conditions (i.e. keeping all the high tech goods for its own
use).
A more liberal govenment would want to better the conditions of its
citizens and would be probably have less severe import conditions.
But even in this type of system imports would be monitored so as to
lessen the impact upon society.

> I think the answers to all of these questions are probably 'yes', 
> but we've never been told so explicitly.

I'll agree with this. I have yet to see a good explanation anywhere
on trade and commerce.

> I think it would also be very nice to get some idea of the volume of
> shipping available in various regions of the Imperium...

I would probably say it is very similar to the conditions today.
Heavy traffic through the main trade routes by the everyone with 
lighter traffic to the outlying regions by small subsidiaries or
small independents.
Look at any major city. Planes, for instance. Every airline in the area
has flights into the city so connections can be made. But only the
small airlines service the smaller regional airports.

To pin down actual numbers would take some time. But even in the 
Imperium scheduled flights would be an integral component of
communications.

Since there would be frequent flights, one per day per major planet
for the major lines might be appropriate, would necessitate cheaper
travel costs. Travel costs, as they are now, seem to be too high.
Which is another point I find irritating. I would think that the
average or at least the above average citizen would want to take
a cruise offplanet. As it is now it would take a major portion of
a citizens income just for the ticket! 

Mike Surman



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3284
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 10:21:54 GMT-0600
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu
Subject: Re:  A Little Joke (Agility)


This little drone with the massive agility and supposedly no propulsion
unit doesn't make sense, though.  To be able to dodge, the craft will need
to be able to apply a thrust in some direction, right?  In zero g, unless
a counter-force is applied, the craft will continue to move on its new
vector caused by this thrust, due to inertia.  To be really agile, the
ship would have to be able to make many such dodging motions quickly,
perhaps even repetitively.  If it did repetitive dodges in the same
direction, thrusting the same way again and again, couldn't the vessel
be considered to be applying a maneuvering thrust?  It would probably be
higher than the thrust caused by the Challenge #45 ion drive....

Someone mentioned making fusion rockets less maneuverable than thrusters,
but allowing them a greater acceleration.  What if someone mounts BOTH
systems on their ship?  I had a vargr corsair captain in a campaign that
wanted to do this to his ship -- he liked the thought of having a backup
engine system that could be used for emergency power and a little extra kick
in an emergency.

The comment was made that fusion rockets couldn't be used for high-gee
agility because they couldn't provide "sideways" thrust without blowing up.
But what is to stop people from mounting secondary rockets on the hull
perpendicular to the main axis of thrust?  That rocket, perhaps a quarter
the size of the main engine, could be used in order to augment "sideways"
motion as well.  Maybe I'm missing something here.

- --Steve

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3285
From: mccord@equinox.unr.edu (Travis McCord)
Subject: Technical question...
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 15:25:21 GMT


Here's something I thought about after reading the Starship
Ops Manual...

OK, it says the jump drive generates this enormous amount of
energy, and sends it to the Lanthanum hull net, where just
the flowing of energy is enough to tear a hole in our dimension
and enter jumpspace.

Question: how does all that energy get from the drive to the hull 
without mangling space inside the ship?

Come to think of it, how does it manage to flow through the net 
without vaporizing it, the hull or the entire ship?  If there's
any resistance, the heat would be enormous, and if not, it would
be impossible to direct, wouldn't it?  (OK, I stank in physics.
Maybe some physicist/MegaTrav-fanatic could tell us all how the
Jump Drive is built.  :)

                                        --mccord@equinox.unr.edu
                                          former lurker


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3286
From: Adam Naylor <anaylor@gara.une.oz.au>
Subject: Re: General Traveller Questions
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 15:00:02 EST

[Forwarded to TML.  Please respond to both TML and directly to Edmund's
mailbox -- James]

Oooooohhhhhh Boy !!!!!

I bet you thout you had heard the last of me (HAH!) I know when I am onto
a good thing .

Question 1

Can you give me an extended description of planetary governments 

Question 2

The vilani / vargr and solomani / aslan books wont be ordered by my book
store cause they suck 

So I dont suppose you have (very brief so as not to piss you off) any info
regarding of character generation of vargr and aslan 

Question 3

If your world is in a habitible zone and is the moon of a gas giant, you run a
a GREAT risk of having neighbours with twice the population of the homeworld

Question 4 

The moon sizes for another planets seem  a little wierd . I mean according
to those rules there is NO WAY the moon (ours) can be the sixe it is .

Question 5

If a world is both atmos 4-9 and a pop of 8+ it runs a HUGE RISK of being
near a dwarf star which actually makes it uninhabitible . 

Well outer zoned anyway .

Question 6

Are nuclear weapons illegal for everybody

Question 7

When does the imperium interfere in a member worlds affairs . So like when
the mysterious strike assignment from the naval characters generation comes 
into it . 

Question 8

Wouldnt a naval tech have a good chance of gaining the admin skill ?

Question 9 

Does an aslan male character whose social is about 6+ usually join the armed
forces 

Question 10 

I hope you are not getting sick of all these BLOODY NIGLEY QUESTIONS 

Question 11

Whose the guy who regards himself as an expert on military affairs in 
traveller (as in the one who has access to email)

Question 12

It took me an average 5 hours to make up a vehicle . How does Scott Kellog 
find the time, I mean geez .....

Question 13 

The power (in megawatts) in the vehicle creation system is really unclear ....
I dont suppose you have a clearer definition . 

Question 14

I tried to make a scout vessel (as the one from the encyclopedia) and
absolutly nothing was acurate . As it turned out the power listed for vessels
in the encyclopedia were on average 3 times the power I worked out for them

Question 15

How different is the robot rules in book 8 different from the ones published
in 79 in the best of traveller journal . (Which I have a copy)

Question 16

Thanks for ALL your help, I mean THANKS . I have been sitting in the dark
about MT for the past 2 years . 

Edmund



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3287
From: Adam Naylor <anaylor@gara.une.oz.au>
Subject: Re: General Traveller Questions
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 91 19:57:39 EST

[Forwarded to TML.  Please respond to both TML and directly to Edmund's
mailbox -- James]

Okay I have some more .....

What does exactly NOE mean ???

What do the naval assignments mean


And what is going to happen to MT in 92 . 

The arcives (which I have  been cruising seem to be all fired up about it)

Star Vikings, based on Pipers space vikings ???

Edmund


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3288
From: Adam Naylor <anaylor@gara.une.oz.au>
Subject: Re: General Traveller Questions
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 91 15:57:49 EST

[Forwarded to TML.  Please respond to both TML and directly to Edmund's
mailbox -- James]

Guess what !!!!!

I though of some more wonderful questions .......

Okay are you ready ....

1) Officers get promoted once a term, and not dependant on assignments (
except say garrison . So an army lieut gets promoted on an internal sec)

2) College : 4 yours at college to recieve a pidling extra educ points . How
about instead of gaining educ points, gain levels of academic . So a character
could have studied history, or genetics or something like that at college . 

3) Flight School : Is this one year or 4 . Could you spend brownie points
to gain extra pilot skills, The descriptions and tables seem to be different
from each other for advanced characters (I mean in naval academy, flight 
school etc) 

4) Traveller Aid Society . The description in the book isnt all that clear ...
Do travellers members pay for accomodation while travelling, How do they prove
thier identity as a traveller member . 

5) Naval Bases and Scout Bases

How big is a naval base (very roughly, like how many ships etc) 
How big is a scout base (as above)

Do the staff at bases count as members of the population 

6) Non Imperial Military Bases : What exactly are they ????

7) Do you know where I could pick up info about merc companies

8) What exactly are the official guidelines for vehicle creation . It 
seemed that all the creators in the archives (well the bundles) had thier own
idea

9) How far out are the vehicles in the encyclopedia from the truth ?

10) What is mike metlay (???)'s email address . I would like to ask him a 
few questions ?????

11) Geez I hope you arnt getting sick of me .....

Edmund


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3289
Subject: Re: General Traveller Questions 
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 15:43:26 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


I skipped the source-related questions as I haven't got my sources
with me.

Adam Naylor <anaylor@gara.une.oz.au> writes:
> If a world is both atmos 4-9 and a pop of 8+ it runs a HUGE RISK of being
> near a dwarf star which actually makes it uninhabitible.

Yep!  This problem has been around since Book 6.  I just treat the
basic system generation as gospel and the expanded as a suggestion
which I discard :-)

> Are nuclear weapons illegal for everybody
In the Imperium they are (it's a high crime to possess or sell one).
Only the Imperial armed forces have nukes and they only use them in cases
of extreme injustice.

> When does the imperium interfere in a member worlds affairs.  So like when
> the mysterious strike assignment from the naval characters generation comes
> into it.

Only when interstellar trade and commerce is grossly affected, or a
violation of imperial law (like use of nukes) is involved.

> I hope you are not getting sick of all these BLOODY NIGLEY QUESTIONS

Yes! :-)

> Whose the guy who regards himself as an expert on military affairs in
> traveller (as in the one who has access to email)

There are a few.  Like maybe Rob Dean?  I let them speak for
themselves.

> It took me an average 5 hours to make up a vehicle.  How does Scott Kellog
> find the time, I mean geez.....

I think they rework existing designs a great deal.  I agree it's a
formidable task (uncertain)

> Thanks for ALL your help, I mean THANKS.  I have been sitting in the dark
> about MT for the past 2 years.

I try.  Sorry for the spotty answers.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3290
Subject: New sector data location
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 91 15:50:34 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Brian G. Vaughan <bvaughan@ocf.Berkeley.EDU> writes:
> Oh, and one other question: I understand there is a relatively new, updated
> collection of sector data files on one of the TML repositories.  Which one?

That's on sunbane [129.100.100.12], in (I think) directory
pub/traveller/sectors/dgp.updated
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3291
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1991 20:43 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Flying in Circles

Hi,

Flying in circles to simulate gravity

Ok, This is assuming that when the ship is accelerating @1G, the floor
is set up so that the crew feels 1G of acceleration on the aft bulkhead
making that the 'Floor'.  So, flying from planet to planet, you would
walk around on the 'floor' and feel perfectly normal.

Now, we want to stay in orbit, or just stay in one location.  By putting
a slow rotation on the ship you are pointing the drives in a varying
direction.  When you have made a full circle, your net acceleration is
zero.  Thus you haven't moved anywhere.

Well Tony, I did say a SLOW rotation now didn't I?  Acutally, I was
considering flying in a circle say... a couple kilometers in diameter...
I'm too lazy to figure out what the coliosis forces would do, but if
1 km is too small, then 2 km should be ok.

Think about it like this:  1kg Bead on a string.  whirl the bead around over
your head so that the bead is feeling 9.8m/S^2 in centripetal acceleration.
Ok, now imagine your bead is now a 1kg spaceship.  Instead of the string
pulling on the spaceship with a force of 9.8 neutons, the ship's engines
are pushing it with 9.8 neutons.  As long as the ship's nose is pointed at
the center of the circle and is accelerating at 1G, you will stay right there.

Ok now expand the scale.  Now you have a 30 meter long ship accelerating
at 1G.  Sure you'd want the diameter of the rotation to be much longer.
But you are not rotating in such a way that the center of rotation is within
the body of the ship.

Trust me it works.  (Hey you're at MIT!  I'm at Auburn!  You're supposed to
be smarter than me!) :-) :-)

BTW, it was always my impression that a Radiation counter in megatrav would
detect particulate radiation.  Thus it is useless in finding stars.  In
order for a TL 9 ship to jump, you will need some sort of telescope, and
the closest thing in MT is the Light Intensifier.

Mr. Scott
1=[(-1)^2]^1/2=(-1)^1/2*(-1)^1/2=i*i=i^2=-1

1=-1 QED

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3292
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 00:16:09 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Just when you thought it was safe to read the TML again!


PART 7

Terra: The AECO Starport

	"RUN, DAMMIT!"
	"Can't--<huff>--keep up!"
	"Come ON! We're DEAD if we slow down now!"
	The running footsteps echoed in the long tunnel, splashing water in 
the dim light from the coldlamps hanging in the air like a mist of silver.
Faint and far away, a strange sound was heard for the barest instant, like a 
sudden roll of thunder.
	<whoom>
	"What was THAT, f'Godsakes?!"
	"I dunno! RUN!"
	There was a splash and a curse, as a body went sprawling in the 
water. In a final disgusting indignity, the puddle was sticky and warm to
the touch....the sound reverberated in the tunnel again, louder this time.
	<Whooom>
	"Get UP, damn yer ass!"
	"What the hell IS that!"
	"Who cares! RUN!"
	Echoing footsteps, light after light passing by overhead in an 
endless stream. Again, the sound. And again, louder still.
	<WHOOOOM>
	"THERE!" Grant skidded to a stop, nearly bowled over from behind
by the others. He pointed at a dim shadow, barely visible on the ceiling
in the darkness between the ill-spaced lights. 
	"Access hatch," he panted. "Kherk! Footstool!"
	The huge Vargr hunched down in the corridor, and Sanchez scrambled
onto his back. Fell and Jaeger steadied his legs as he reached up above his
head and began to work at the lock....
	<WHOOOOMMMM!>
	"What the hell is that NOISE?!" Fell threw a glance over his 
shoulder. "It keeps getting louder...."
	Jaeger stiffened suddenly. "Oh, no," he muttered. "They wouldn't.
Not even the SOLOMANI would stoop that low!" He shuddered quietly to himself. 
	"What? WHAT?!"
	"They're blasting the tunnels in sequence with live steam from the
main fusion plant," Jaeger gritted. "They mean to boil us alive."
	"Hey, HOLD STILL!" Sanchez teetered for a dangerous moment, then 
recovered himself. "Trying to WORK up here!"
	<WHOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!>
	"Sorry," Kherkhoulloth muttered, trying to still his shivering.
"Boiled alive," he whispered softly. 
	"Straight out of a Fleming novel," Jaeger sighed. "What a positively
TACKY way to die...."
	"Tacky." Fell seemed to be desperately trying not to laugh. Or maybe
scream.... "Tacky." He sighed. "Well, SORRY, Jaeger. These things--"
	<WHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM!!>
	"--happen." 
	"I FELT that one." Grant touched the curving wall. "In the rock...."
	"GOT IT!" Kherkhoulloth rolled to the side as the access valve
clanged open and Sanchez rode the retractable ladder from the open access
tube down to the floor. He swarmed up the ladder again, panting, "Gotta get
the upper hatch, now...." 
	"Go! Don't wait for him! GO!" Grant hustled Fell and Jaeger up the 
ladder after Sanchez.
	"You next, chief," Kherkhoulloth rumbled. "I can take the heat on my
fur better than you can." 
	"Kherk--" Grant was cut off by the rumbling roar of steam, deafening 
now. Chips of plaster fluttered down from the ceiling. 
	"That one was right next door, we're NEXT! Don't argue!" 
	Grant went up the ladder, three rungs at a time. Kherkhoulloth
hurried after him, pausing in the narrow hatchway to reach down and begin
hauling the ladder back up. Three pulls, four.... 
	The ladder jammed.
	Growling angrily, Kherkhoulloth reached down out of the access hatch
and grabbed the ladder's lowest rung. In doing so, he had to poke his muzzle
and head back down into the corridor. "I must look like an idiot," he
snarled. Upside down in a narrow tube, hauling on a stuck-- 
	His eyes widened. A boiling wall of flame was hurtling down the
tunnel toward him. The crash and roar was earsplitting. With a howl of sheer
terror, Kherkoulloth let go of the ladder and grabbed the hatch, hauling
upward with all his might. It hit the ladder with a clang, jarring it loose,
and slammed shut just as the dim tunnel suddenly turned hellishly bright.... 
	Kherkoulloth wasn't brave, but Tsogukh was. And if there was one 
thing an Urzaeng Vargr did well, it was enduring pain stoically. He hung 
upside down for a long minute, muscles straining against the slipstream that
was trying to haul the hatch open and suck him into the boiling maelstrom
below, gritting his teeth and whimpering softly as the hatch handle grew 
warm, then hot, then scalding....
	And then it was over. There was only quiet below him. Gently he 
turned the hatch handle a half turn, hissing as the skin peeled away from
his hand. Gingerly he let it go. It held.
	He resisted the urge to faint, forced himself around in the narrow
tube, and began to climb the ladder, hind legs slipping on the rungs, burned
hand clutched to his chest. There was light above him, and a breeze....
	And then they were hauling him out of the vent shaft and easing him 
down onto the hard concrete floor. "You okay, buddy?"
	"I burned my hand," Kherkhoulloth whimpered. "See?" He held the
wounded hand up for the others to inspect. 
	Fell whistled as he gently turned the Vargr's hand from side to side.
"Second-degree burns for sure," he said. "You got pretty cooked, furball."
He grinned. "But compared to us ALL getting parboiled, I'd say that was a
pretty good tradeoff."
	"You would." Kherkhoulloth began licking the wounded hand gingerly.
	"Where are we, anyway?" Fell looked about him with interest. The
wall in which the access tube was set was an interior one, and the ceiling
was high and dimly lit in the stifling heat. The tube opening was well hidden
behind piles of crates, grouped to allow easy access with grav lifters.
	"Storehouse for offshipped items, I'd guess," Jaeger ventured, 
examining a crate's shipping label. "Pah," he muttered disgustedly. "All
computer coded. Nothing to read. Why didn't we keep Hector with us?"
	"Because they know we have him," Sanchez sighed. "He can travel 
faster on his own, and meet us when we get the hell out of here." He fumbled 
through the pouch at his waist. "Nope, no code reader," he shrugged. "I guess 
the guy I slugged wasn't a stevedore...."
	His voice trailed off at the sound of whistling. Someone was coming 
down one of the aisles.
	Jaeger smiled wickedly. "Methinks I have an idea, gentlesophonts."

	"Ah, 'scuse me a moment!"
	The Transshipment Inspector turned around at the unfamiliar voice.
He saw a somewhat unkempt man in a TI uniform striding toward him across the 
cargo dock. The new arrival was obviously a senior bureaucrat of some kind, 
the Inspector thought with an inward sigh. He carried himself with that 
certain air of arrogance that officials in positions of power tend to 
develop, and he was having a terrible time staying out from under the cargo 
haulers as they rapidly unloaded crates from the AECO monorail cars.
	The Inspector saluted smartly. "What can I do for you, sir?"
	"I'm ah, really sorry to disturb you, Mister," the bureaucrat said
in an gravelly snarl, "But my partner and I--" He flicked a thumb over his 
shoulder at another man in a TI uniform, poking about the crates with a code 
reader, "--are looking for a mixup in the AECO shipping register for this 
run." He leaned closer to the Inspector. "Probably nothing, but YOU know what
it's like dealing with The New Boss, right?"
	The Inspector's carefully neutral look faded to a small frown. "Watch 
what you're saying, friend," he said mildly. "You KNOW they could be 
monitoring us, right?"
	"Yah, sure," the official grinned, shrugging. "But who cares?" He 
bellowed at the ceiling, "IF THEY'D LET US DO OUR JOBS!" --his voice returned 
to its previous growl. "--We'd have a lot less to worry about."
	The Inspector gulped audibly.
	"Here's the problem," the official said, handing a codesheet to the 
Inspector. "There's been a shipment of carbon film, YOU know, for fusion 
cleanup crews, that's gotten mixed up with a shipment of CARTON film, the 
stuff you wrap around piles of crates to keep'em on the dolly, you know?"
He gave the Inpsector a playful dig in the shoulder. "Simple mixup with the
parser, probably, but you can't be sure, so me and the guy in Moscow are 
busy trying to make sure the right shipment went to the right place, see?"
	"Ah." The Inspector nodded, and retrieved a code probe from his shirt 
pocket. He ran the probe over the sheet. "Hmm. That'd be over here, in the
stuff I haven't inspected yet." He pointed down the tube toward the tail of 
the monorail. "I'm not supposed to skip over any part of the shipment, but 
this doesn't look like it'll take more than a minute...."
	"Great. I appreciate it. I'll mention how helpful you were to your
supervisor...." The official wandered down the bustling dock beside the 
Inspector. Behind him, his partner walked quickly up to a pile of crates
that was being readied for inspection by a stevedore in a cargo lifter, 
and cleared his throat loudly.
	"Yah? So whatchawant?" The stevedore leaned out of the lifter's cab, 
chewing on a narco and looking over the official doubtfully.
	"We could use a hand with a quick inspection check, friend," the 
official said mildly. "My partner over there is with your supervisor, 
preparing to crosscheck codes on a shipment that may have been misdirected. 
Would you mind giving them a hand?"
	"I got crates ta move," the stevedore said surlily.
	"Very well," the official shrugged. "I shall find someone more 
willing to help his superiors when a crisis arises." He turned away.
	"Waitaminnit!" The stevedore spat out his narco and gunned the
lifter. "I'm goin', I'm goin'. Sheez! Humpin' bureaucrats...."
	The second official watched him go, a small smile on his lips. He
nonchalantly reached down to the customs tag on one of the crates the
stevedore had been about to lift and stack, and yanked it off with a snap.
	"Go," he whispered.
	The lid of the crate opened, and Grant, Kherkhoulloth, and Sanchez
staggered out clumsily. "What a ride," Sanchez managed, as he and the others
slumped down behind a stack of crates, out of sight of the stevedore. Quickly
the official attached a new tag to the crate, and looked up nonchalantly as
his partner returned with the Inspector.
	"Well?"
	"All clear," was the reply. "Damn stevedore had the crate we wanted
on the bottom of the stack, but I was able to do a spot check by lot number.
Looks like the parser did okay, so they're NOT gonna get carton film at the
Moscow Power Authority!"
	The Inspector chuckled. "Thank heavens for that. All we'd need was 
another scandal for the monit--" His mouth snapped shut. "You know," he 
mumbled lamely.
	"Uh-huh," the first official said soothingly. "Thanks for 
everything." He and his partner walked smartly away toward the exit. The 
Inspector watched them go, shaking his head. Then he returned his attention
to the crates....

	"I never never NEVER wanna do that again," Kherkhoulloth muttered
as the group, mingling with the crowds, made its way out into the glaring 
sun. "What a RIDE! Even WITHOUT Sanchez throwing up."
	"That's unnecessary," Sanchez snapped uncharacteristically. "When 
one has been (a) interrogated (b) starved (c) subjected to severe physical
and emotional--" He stopped. "Whoops," he smiled sheepishly. "Seems like
there's still a little Newton left rattling around in here." He clapped a 
palm to an ear several times, as if knocking water from the other ear.
	"Well, of COURSE there is," Fell said irritably as he stuffed the
official's uniform into a trash bin. "He's mostly YOU, isn't he? Just a
set of fake memories and habits spliced onto your old training. Like 
Tchorgin, or Newton, or...." 
	His voice changed tone suddenly. "AL-JEET!" He began pushing to the 
edge of the air/raft ramp, waving. The others followed him, mystified.
	"Aljeet?" Sanchez scratched his head. "What does--"
	A battered, rattling old air/raft swerved out of the neat lines
of vehicles at the monorail station entry, nearly causing a number of 
accidents. Other drivers leaned out of their cabs and shook their fists
at the cab as its gull-wing doors swung upward to admit the party.
	"HEEYIKE!" Kherkhoulloth yanked the door shut behind him with his 
good hand as the raft rocketed upward, heeling over on one side like a
starfighter. "ARE YOU CRAZY?!"
	Fell rattled off a few quick words in Arabic to the driver, who 
grinned through rotten teeth, sang, "Kham, effendi!" and sent the raft 
shooting across the desert toward the distant towers of Cairo.
	"Do ALL taxi drivers in Egypt go hell bent for leather like this?"
Grant frantically struggled with his seat restraints, trying to strap 
himself in as the raft lurched and stalled, dropping a hundred meters
before it recovered its lift.
	"Of course not, Captain," Fell grinned. "Only the ones who take 
inordinate risks delivering passengers without allowing them to be picked
up by SolSec monitors-- at a price, of course." The driver nodded, grinning.
	"But how could he--ah!" Jaeger nodded understanding. "A code word!"
	"Al-Jitni," Fell nodded. "Jitney. Unregistered hired transport."
He spoke a few more words to the driver, who nodded, his dark face suddenly
serious. The raft swooped downward to one of the Cairo arcology towers, its
vast expanse of terraces and windows looming huge before them.
	"Are we gonna HIT?" Sanchez looked ready to vomit again.
	"Be ready to bail out," Fell barked, popping his seat restraints.

	"I don't care WHAT your supervisor says," the young woman sobbed 
tearfully as she blew her nose on her napkin. "It's our ANNIVERSARY! You
can't just go packing off to, to," She blew her nose with a honk, "To 
CLEVELAND for a week!"
	"Sweetheart," her husband sighed, pouring another cup of coffee,
"If I thought I could ask for a delay, I WOULD have! But I just don't know
if he'd let me get away with it. If I had some sort of sign--"
	His voice was cut off by a shrill scream from his wife. Like a 
breaching whale, a creaking old air/raft had risen to the level of their
balcony, close enough to touch.
	It unceremoniously tilted to one side, a door opening and dumping 
an odd assortment of people onto the balcony next to the tea table. Four 
humans and a Vargr. A HUGE Vargr, at that.
	"Beg pardon." A tall, sharp-faced man tipped an imaginary hat to 
the couple as he made his way inside. The portly fellow in the lead didn't
even speak to them.
	"Sorry about this," said the pale blonde man as he ushered the Vargr
through the door. 
	"We really must drop in again," said the foppish-looking youngster
who was last through the door. The husband leaped to his feet and charged 
after them, but they had already gone out the front door of the apartment.
	He turned around and looked at his wife, who was staring in shock at
the rapidly-fading outline of the air/raft as it streaked toward the horizon,
three SolSec speeders in hot pursuit.
	"I'll call my supervisor," he whispered. "Now."

TO BE CONTINUED



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3293
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 00:23:46 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Edmund's Looking for ME?! AAAGH! I'M NOT HERE! Er....


.....no, I guess that wouldn't work, would it? *sigh*

Adam, my Email address is metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu. I could probably
make a stab at answering about 2/3 of the questions you ask, and give 
CORRECT answers on about 3/4 of those, but I'm in Oak Ridge right now
preparing to run an experiment and my mail time is limited. Still, it
can't hurt to ask, so send me your questions. 

(We should have a sign up system so everyone gets to answer one question
of Adam's.... |->

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3294
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: An E-tribe called TML
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 13:16:44 MET

  I hope nobody takes offence about the subject, because that issue of
Scientific American that I never quit talking about used the word 'tribe' to
describe small (up to a few hundred) electronic group that "support sustained
interaction, develop their own norms of behaviour and generate peer pressure":)

  In the best of traditions from Monte Python, I'll not talk about that, but
about the feasability of doing some serious Traveller work over the TML with
regards to how electronic groups work.

  There has been laboratory studies of how different electronic forums perform
in comparision to face-to-face meetings and even, belive it or not, studies
of the frequencey of flames in different forums.

  The results were that in discussions done through electronic mail there are
less 'stool pigeons' than in fact-to-face discussions. More ideas were
proposed in them, but they took *much* longer to reach a decision. From the
diagrams they took between three and five times as long time to get something
done.

  I belive that we have seen this in action at least once, and that was one
of the reasons behind why I said that unless a core group of persons in
physical contact with each other is placed as the spiders in the net, there
is no way anything comm*rcially successful will come out of TML.

  (Also note that I have a nagging suspicion that the site that most graciously
lends their resources to serve as the hub of the TML would object rather
strongly if anything comm*rcially successful came out of the TML)

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3295
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 11:17:45 GMT-0600
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu
Subject: Re: Misc. Questions...


just a couple tidbits that grabbed my attn. -- some of us are supposed to
be working on final projects, not reading mail! :)

On Imperial Colleges:  My opinion is that the Educ increases that we've seen
    in the recent rules for College indicates a liberal-arts style emphasis
    in Imperial education.  The varied courses or whatever the students do
    results in a broad range of knowlege that can best be simulated by an
    increase in the Educ score rather than any particular skills.  Somehow
    it makes sense that IISS Admin would want highly educated officers to
    supervise what must be an insanely complex service, involving a rich
    knowlege about Known Space, how to learn, how to understand a new
    culture, the history of technology, of Imperial philosophy....  It also
    helps explain the initial IISS neutrality in the Rebellion.

    However, I have also used an alternative system which is little-known
    and dates to the 1977 Traveller rules.  Any character may take four
    years off for "college", at a cost of Cr70000.  Instead of the Educ bonus,
    the character may take EITHER one level-two skill OR two level-one skills.
    The player is allowed to select ANY SKILL or skills.  This isn't 
    necessarily a college, but simply someplace the skill could be learned.
    (I can't imagine learning just Equestrian-2 at college, but you never
    know.... :) )  If College is done as part of generation, I usually waive
    the fee. (Although it might be interesting to have a young character
    with some nasty college loans! :) again!)

On Credit:  I don't think the Imperium operates on an interstellar credit
    system like ours.  Travel time would make collecting payments (or for
    that matter, reciepts!) a bit dicey.  Didn't an old JTAS have an article
    about Imperial and megacorp sponsored debit cards?  The debit cards are
    very similar in appearance to credit cards, except that they are 
    encoded with a specific balance in credits at the bank, and transactions
    are encoded on them.  Data encryption security for those are even
    tighter than a starship's black box -- it takes some hellish levels of
    Computer, Electronics, and Forgery to rig one up.  If the bank decides
    to audit your card, it can take up to seven years to get all the 
    transactions verified by xboat!
 

- -- Steve

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3296
Subject: Re: (3288) Re: General Traveller Questions 
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 10:03:06 PST


Adam Naylor <anaylor@gara.une.oz.au> writes:
> 2) College: ...
> How about instead of gaining educ points, gain levels of academic.  So a
> character could have studied history, or genetics or something like that at
> college.

Sounds cool!

> 3) Flight School : Is this one year or 4.

I think it's 1 year.

> 4) Traveller Aid Society.  The description in the book isnt all that
> clear... Do travellers members pay for accomodation while travelling, How
> do they prove thier identity as a traveller member.

It's not clear to me either.  Make a ruling.  I'd allow TAS members get
free basic lodging and food at TAS hotels.  Shipboard it's part of the
High Passage.

> 5) Naval Bases and Scout Bases

> How big is a naval base (very roughly, like how many ships etc)

For naval base size, one might want to go back to the Trillion Credit
Squadron game to get an idea.  Scout base is anyone's guess, although I
think there are some published adventures with example scout bases.

> Do the staff at bases count as members of the population

No.

> 8) What exactly are the official guidelines for vehicle creation.  It
> seemed that all the creators in the archives (well the bundles) had thier
> own idea

That's right.  The "official" guidelines are in the 3 boxed MT books of
wisdom. :-)

> 10) What is mike metlay (???)'s email address.  I would like to ask him a
> few questions?????

metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3297
Subject: Re: Traveller (Again but not for long) 
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 10:55:03 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Adam Naylor <anaylor@gara.une.oz.au> writes:
> Do you mean you ingnore extended system generation????  As in dont worry
> about what sun it has etc.

Well, not exactly.  Usually my systems are first generated with the
basic generation (mainworld only).  Eventually later I shoehorn that
mainworld into an extended system generation.

> So what exactly is a strike assignment, and siege and so forth

I can't help!  I'm have no military experience and I don't remember seeing
any clear definitions.

> Well I emailed Rob Dean, and I guess he heard I was coming <sigh> so he
> didnt reply.

Sigh.

> Like I am really sorry about disturbing you.  I dont suppose you have any
> info on the supposed new traveller (ie the bug free baby)

The only info I have is from GEnie, forwarded to the TML archives.  The
only really concrete thing is that they are replacing the 2d6 task
system with a d20 task system, that it is set in about TI 1195, that a
computer virus has contributed to the fall of the Imperium.  I know that
as far as game mechanics go, there are no sacred cows.  I suspect the
history of the imperium will be unscathed, but the mechanics will be
derived from Twilight 2000 in part and MT in part.

> By the way is there anyway I can view the traveller newsgroup without
> having to subcribe.  eg to look at rec.games.frp I type vn -n rec.games.frp

No, there is no TML newsgroup, nor does the TML want there to be a TML
newsgroup.  You MUST either subscribe via direct mail or have a site
administrator gateway the incoming mail into a local newsgroup.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3298
Subject: TML Admin Deluged
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 11:35:10 PST


For some people of late I have been very responsive, for others I have
been UNresponsive.  Particularly those asking me about MSDOS floppy TML
archives.  Well, I'm going to plead schedule pressure and keep you
waiting even longer.  YOU AREN'T BEING PERMANENTLY IGNORED, JUST
TEMPORARILY! I hope to unbury myself before the end of January...

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #273: Msgs 3298-3304
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From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Dec 15 21:00:10 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #273: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3299  09-Dec-91 burt@ptltd.COM    GENIE: Revised Starship Combat Rules (v1.0) <
3300  11-Dec-91 Rob Miracle       Re: General Traveller Questions << >Question 
3301  12-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Re: (3284) Re: A Little Joke (Agility) << Ste
3302  12-Dec-91 surman@zulu.lgs.l GDW Pubs, Re: 3295,3294 << Has anyone heard a
3303  12-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Re: (3286) Re: General Traveller Questions (3
3304  12-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Re: (3300) Re: General Traveller Questions <<
3305  12-Dec-91 Joe Heck          GENIE Compilation << After reading through th

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3299
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 91 13:47:44 EST
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)
Subject: GENIE: Revised Starship Combat Rules (v1.0)

[NOTE: I was working on the following until I got wind of the T3 revision.
 Please send it along to GDW via GEnie.  Maybe they can use some of the ideas.]
===============================================================================
Revised Starship Combat Rules (v1.0) 

[0] Combat Ststistics
    Each ship must have it's combat characteristics defined (generally done
    after the design process). 

   * Critical characters (pilot, gunners, etc) must determine their base combat
     efficiency:
        Skill: (none)  0   1  2-3 4-5  6-7  8-9   10
        Effic:   -4   -2  -1   0   +1   +2   +3   +4

   * Hull Capacity: Ship hulls have a limited amount of punishment that they
     can take before becoming incapacitated.  This value is based on hull size
     and armor type.
        HCS = 2 x (Displacement/100)^0.6666 x Armor modifier (below)
        HCD = 12 x (Displacement/100)^0.8333 x Armor modifier (below)

           Soft Steel ........................ x0.248
           Hard Steel ........................ x0.310
           Composite Laminate ................ x0.705
           Lt. Weight Composite Laminate ..... x0.815
           Crystaliron ....................... x1.000
           Superdense ........................ x1.148
           Bonded Superdense ................. x2.214
           Coherent Superdense ............... x4.429

     HCS (Hull Capacity, Streamlining) indicates the number of hits to reduce
     a hull rating one level (Hypersonic-Supersonic-Transonic-Subsonic-Simple).
     Dropping one level indicates a breach -- two levels indicates a serious
     breach.  At three or more the ship has too many holes to be pressurized.
     
{note: Airframe = Hypersonic, Streamlined = Supersonic, Partially Streamlined =
 Transonic.  All others = Unstreamlined rating.  Ratings and speeds from 
 STRIKER}

     HCD (Hull Capacity, Disabling) indicates the number of internal structural
     hits a ship can withstand before becoming a delilect (i.e. cannot maneuver
     else she breaks up).

{Note: These hull damages are meaningless when using a divisional damage
  system, in the notes later on}

[1] Pre-combat
    Before combat, determine the readiness modifier of each critical
    character (pilot, gunners, etc).  The result of an open-ended roll is
    checked to determine their readiness:

    ... -7,-6  -5,-4  -3,-2  -1,0  1,2  3,4  5,6  7,8  9,10  11,12  13,14 ...
    ...   -5     -4     -3     -2   -1   +0   +1   +2   +3     +4     +5  ...

    The open roll is performed as follows: roll 1d6
    a) if 2-5, use that number
    b) if 6, add 5 to the roll of 1d6.  Subsequent 6's add 5 and another roll.
    c) if 1, subtract 5 from the roll of 1d6.  Subsequent 1's subtract 5 more.

    Thus, rolling a 6 means you get 5+1d6.  However, if you roll another 6,
    on this second roll, you get 10+1d6, and so on until you do not roll
    a 6.  The same process goes for 1's.  Once the "direction" is determined,
    you do not consider the other end (i.e., if on a 6 chain, ignore rule "c"
    above).

{Note: Joe Gunner (Gunnery 3, base of 0 (from above) rolls a 6.  Using rule
 "b" he rolls again, getting a 4.  His total is 9, which converts to a +3.
  His gunnery modifier for this encounter is +3.  Fred Gunner (Gunnery 6,
  base of +2) rolls a 1, then another 1, and finally a 5.  Using rule "c"
  his roll is 5 (last roll) -10 (for the two 1's) for a -5 total.  On the
  table, this is a -4 modifier, so he starts combat with a -2 rating.}

    Thus, on average, critical characters will operate at or near their
    normal efficiency.  However, some will start off very well, while some
    will be having a very bad day.  

    As combat turns go by, the readiness will improve (if negative) or degrade
    (if positive) at a chance determined by the quality of the position
    (cramped vs. roomy, no HUD, HUD or Holo-HUD, etc).

{Note: As combat turns go by, the ratings are improved or reduced to the base
levels.  Thus, as combat goes by, Joe will tire and eventually have a +0
rating, while Fred will eventually get the kinks out and be operating at his
normal +2 rating.  How fast their levels change will depend on the equipment
they have to work with.  Good equipment will eliminate negative penaties faster
and slow the rate of degredation.  Likewise, Poor or primitive equipment will
hasten a loss of "edge" and make "getting up to speed" longer.  In addition,
small or cramped workstations or cocpits will increase the rate of degredation
and slow the rate of improvement.  (However, unlike the equipment, they do
not have the opposite effects if large and roomy)}

    For small ships, one readiness check is made per gunner.  For larger
    ships, one is made per section (laser weapons, missile weapons, etc).

{I really like this system.  It adds a bit of "readiness" to combat encounters.
To simulate combat readiness or laxity, one can ignore rules "b" and "c"
as required. (thus, "Ship 'O Fools", with a Lax crew, would not reroll and add
on 6's, but would reroll and subtract with any 1's).  If used with the proposed
d20 system, add the values above to the skill rating before calculation
of skill level.}

[2] Combat Sequence
[3] Damage Resolution
[4] Post-Combat

{Note: I never got to this stage.  The following are notes I made, to be
chopped up and placed in the above document.}

    2) In combat, 2d6+(gunner rating)+(weapon accuracy rating)-(pilot rating)-
       (agility rating)-(defensive rating) is cross-checked on a firing table
       corresponding to the number of weapons fired (may use HG numbers for
       space saving) to determine the number of weapon hits.  The amount of
       computer resources devoted to the weapon system improves the basic
       accuracy bonus.  Likewise, the amount of resources devoted to evasive
       actions will determine the computer add to the ship's defensive rating.

{More detail below on this}

    4) Weapon accuracy's are based on ease of tracking and hitting (i.e. 
       beam lasers are +1, while pulse lasers are +0).

{Yea, standard stuff}

    5) Computer Power is "allocated" for different tasks.  Using the Maximum
       CP input as a "power rating", "allocate" these CP's for combat tasks.
     
       example: The ship's computer has <what ever fits, I don't have my book 
       with me> a limit of 15CP.  If the ship has two gunnery positions, the
       pilot may allocate 5CP to each gunnery position and reserve 5CP for
       evasive action control.

       This simulates the computer power dedicated toward target location
       prediction (i.e. Predict programs from book 2) as well as "Jinking"
       and "facing" changes for defeating such programs (i.e. Maneuver/Evade).
       
       The number of CP required for each bonus is some power function,
       not linear.  The power function for evasion ramps up faster and starts
       at a higher number.  [Note: Somebody good at "does it look reasonable"
       math please come up with some functions...I was thinking of 
       2+CP^2 for gunnery and 3+CP^3 for evasion.

{Note: This needs to be rewritten as it is kind of confusing.  Basically,
for a +3 Evasion, 3+3^3 (or 30) CP are needed.  For a +3 gunnery, 2+3^2
(or 11) CP are needed.  Evasion requires more CP due to the need to swing
a whole ship around instead of just a turret.  Presumably, Evasion bonuses
are limited to maneuver G rating.  Targeting bonuses could be limited by
sensor's available or TL.  Spinal mounts would use the Evasion formula.}
  
{Note: This rule above was to bridge the gap between the old Book-2 programs
and post-HG combat with "computer Model" modifiers.  This Method allows a
starship commander to determine how computer resources are allocated.
Conceivably, each gun position COULD have it's own computer and dedicated
CP allotment, with the ability to be augmented by the main computer.  I agree
that this system could very well be unweildy with HG style ships, but in
"player-scale" combats, I think it is a good balance.  This system could be
extended to include sensor tasks.}

    6) The Hit tables correspond to the HG ratings:
   
               ------------ Roll ---------------
       Beams:  0-  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 ....
          1    -- -- -- -- -- --  1  1  1  1   1  1 ....
          2    -- -- -- -- --  1  2  2  2  2   2  2 ....
          3    -- -- -- --  1  1  2  3  3  3   3  3 ....
          6    -- -- --  1  2  3  4  6  6  6   6  6 ....
         10    -- --  1  2  3  6  8 10 10 10  10 10 ....
                  
                  etc...  This chart is in no way accurate, just a
                     guide to what I was talking about.

{NOTE: This was an attempt to get around the "30 lasers fire at the ship,
and one hits" bugaboo in High Guard.  The "Roll" above is the
base roll (on 2d6, before modifiers) to hit.  I agree this still needed work.}

{end of notes}
===============================================================================
The rules above were my (initial) attempt to make traveller combat more
personal and less abstract than HG (and the botched MT hack of it) version.
My multiple laser rule was an attempt to add some sort of "bracketing" 
ability without having to roll for each laser, yet allow for more than
"one" hit.  

One change I mentioned a while ago (which may have been sent to you in the
packets, but I am not sure) is the "Gal Force" style lasers.  To re-cap:

             //
  Laser     //--------
  Vane --> //+--------
          //++-------- Reflected Lasers, to target ---->
         //+++--------
        //++++--------
       //|||||
#################################
########## Ship Hull ################
###########################################


Lasers are arranged in banks, with anywhere from 1 to 30 lasers per
bank (usually in a line, but in a rectangle for large numbers).

The vane, with is movable for targeting, focuses the lasers on a single
impact point (each vane has a targeting mirror for each laser in the bank,
in addition to the vane itself being able to rotate and move).
Damage to the target ship equals number of lasers - armor protection
(note: this is different from my above "Note 6".  In that, the number of
lasers hitting depends on how well you bracket the target.  In this
idea, a hit is all or nothing.  Note, however, a 30 laser hit is NOT a
single point of damage, but 30x damage).

Laser vanes can be folded down for atmosphere operations and to protect
the mirrors from normal travel damage (microdust, etc).  

As I stated in that old post, Missiles need not be in turrets.  At TL 9+
they can target on their own, given aquisition data from the gunner and
the ship's sensor array.  So missile banks are simply tubes along the sides
of the ship (like torpedo tubes).  Computer CP in this case is used to
provide a clearer sensor "picture" for the missile before launch.
Damage from missiles, being individual objects, would use my "Note 6" above,
since with 30 missiles flying at the target, it is possible for all, none,
or some to hit the target, depending on how agile the target is, how smart
the missiles are, etc.  Missile bays simply allow either more of the smaller
missiles, or larger ones (which are harder to kill with sand, see below).

Sand is handled similar to Screens in 2300ad.  Sand banks provide a metalic,
ablative screen around the ship.  In HG terms, the ship requires one factor
of sand for every ship size. (i.e. while a 100t Scout can get by with 1 
sandcaster, providing Factor 1 protection, a 1000t escort requires 10
sand banks for the same protection.  However, the actual scaling should
be based on the AREA of the ship's increase, (i.e. .6666 power law), so the
1000t excort would need (10^.666) or 4.6415 (round to 5) sand banks.
Sandcasters are not a Single unit, but spread over the ship (i.e. 1 Sandcaster
might actually be 100 seperate dispensors over the hull).  The other half
of the Caster is the hull grid that generates the magnetic fields to keep the
sand screen around the ship.  The sand rating is considered when determining
how many missiles hit, and reduces the amount of laser damage.  Sandscreens
will obviously require more power now.

Particle beams are handled as they are now, as turrets.  However, they
too add the number of particle beams to get the particle damage (before
being reduced by sand or armor).

Armor has the effect of reducing weapon damage.  I suggest a divisional
method, as used in STRIKER for breaches.

(Note that this system already allows some abstraction (for lasers).  While
missile damage is handled on a per-missile basis, you could just break the
damage into 2 or 3 hits (for large volleys) and then apply the armor.)

A simple fractional table could be given for quick reference.
       IMPACT
ARMOR  1x  2x  3x  4x  5x  6x  8x  10x  15x  20x  30x     "Class"
10/12   1   2   3   3   4   5   7    8   13   17   25
 9/12   1   2   2   3   4   5   6    8   11   15   23        EE
 7/12   1   1   2   2   3   4   5    6    9   12   18    
 6/12   1   1   2   2   3   3   4    5    8   10   15         E
 5/12   0   1   1   2   2   3   3    4    6    8   13         D
 4/12   0   1   1   1   2   2   3    3    5    7   10         C
 3/12   0   0   1   1   1   2   2    3    4    5    8         B
 2/12   0   0   1   1   1   1   1    2    3    3    5         A
 1/12   0   0   0   0   0   1   1    1    1    2    3        AA   (A2)
 
beyond these levels are the extreme armor ratings, where the ship is basically
all armor...

 1/18   ...   AAA    (A3)
 1/24   ...   AAAA   (A4)
 1/30   ...   AAAAA  (A5)
 1/36   ...   AAAAAA (A6)

Armor determines effectiveness of any attack.

(Example: Ship Alpha has B rated armor, while Ship Beta has E rated armor.
  Both ships, armed with laser vanes, attack.  Alpha (a gunship) gets 2
  laser hits (each vane has 10 lasers).  Beta also hits with its one vane,
  containing 5 lasers.

  For beta, each 10x laser hit translates into a 5x internal hit.  This
  leaves 5x external energy, which converts to a 3x surface hit.  The remainder
  is lost.  Obviously, beta suffers from two of these.

  Alpha takes a 5x laser hit, which translates to a 1x internal hit.  The
  remaining 4x energy becomes a 1x surface hit.

Internal hits damage Drives, crew areas, power, etc.  Surface hits knockout
external weapons (i.e. non-spinal), sensors and external screens (Sandscreen
grid), communications, streamlining, jump drive grid, etc.

High-energy weapons (Particle, X-ray laser, fusion/plasma) reduce armor
rating by one level.  Very High Energy Weapons (Nuke Missile, Antimatter)
reduced it by 2 levels.

Screens can use the same chart, if given ratings the same as hull armor.
Basically, if the two defenses are the same rating the mutual protection
is one level greater.  If there is too much difference, there is
no significant change.

(Example: A Gunship has B Class Armor and B Class screens.  Being the same
level means the ship has an effeective protection of Class A.  If the screens
are damaged, and are reduced to Class C, they no longer provide significant
protection over the armor, and the ship now has Class B protection.)

This idea would definately work better with a larger armor spread (from 15/20
to 1/20)

===============================================================================
I used 12 steps on the above chart, because 12 is a nice number.  You can just
as well use 10, 20 or some other number, but remember that useful armoring
doesn't begin until the 1/2 mark.  Unarmored ships, on the above table, would
be rated at EE (3/4) armor.  Armor rating, of course, is based on Armor
Hardness and thickness.  Higher numbers allows greater variation with
regards to High-energy Pentration (i.e., with a a table based on 1/20,
Fusion/Plasma could have -1 rating, Particle and Xray at -2 ratings, etc).

===============================================================================
Weapon Limitations:  I suggest that surface weapons be limited based on 
surface area, not ship size.  A 1350kl ship has a surface area of 732 M^2 if
a cube, 590 if a sphere.  Split the difference for "normal" ships,
you get 661 square meters.  From this, configuration can alter this basic
rule of thumb (-10% for spherical or disk ships, +10% if close structure
or box, +20% if dispersed structure, +40% if open frame)  As volume increases,
area increases to 
the .666 power (this can be tabulated), so a 2700kl ship (200t) has an area of
1049 M^2.  After lopping off X% for drives (based on G-acceleration) and
Y% for Jump Grid (based on jump number), and a reasonable amount for general
ship stuff (air locks, landing jacks, windows, etc), the remainder is
available for weapons, sensor arrays, sandscreens and commo equipment.

This allows the removal of the "hardpoint" limitations.  If you got the
hull area, you can put on the weapons. 

In my games, I gave each race a specific style of ship.  The Imperium used
mainly wedge and cone forms, the Zhodani used close structures.  Aslan
prefered Needle forms.  K'Kree used Spheres or Disks.  Hiver ships were
usually irregular shapes.  Vargr used everything, but also tended toward 
needles, wedges or disks.  These form preferences are for capital ships and
orbital-only ships.  Landers or other atmospheric ships tended to be
more similar.  If these new rules are used, racial preference could make
a difference in ship effectiveness, so to offset this perhaps a "bonus" could
be assigned to prefered configuartions, at the expense of a loss in other
configurartions. (1/2 the bonus or penalty of the shape, or 5%)

(Example: Imperial Design prefers wedges and cones, so an additional 5% of
hull area is given.  However, Spherical ships are the least prefered, so
they are further penalized by losing 5% more for a -15%.  
Zhodani ships, being more
close structured, get +5% (giving +15% total over "normal" styles), but
dislike dispersed styles, losing half of the normal dispersed structure
or open frame bonus, for a total of +10% and +20%, respectively).

Note:  Because hull volume goes up faster than hull area, this idea makes
SDB's and Battle Riders much more viable (i.e., no need to leave room for
a jump grid)

This rule also means that a 1,000,000t ship cannot have 1,000 times the number
of weapons (only 100x).  Because of this, large capital ships will not have
multitudes of small guns, but instead have larger ones.  The purpose
of smaller guns, to shoot down missiles and fighters, is left to escort
ships.

Since, in the above rules, AREA has to be calculated, it should be the basis
of any to-hit modifiers based on ship size.
===============================================================================
Well, there are some of My ideas to y'all at GDW.  I hope you can get 
something useful out of them.

===============================================================================
Burton Choinski                                       Phoenix Technologies, LTD
"All opinions are mine, not Phoenix's"                            Cambridge, MA
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3300
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1991 21:46 EST
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Traveller Questions

>Question 6
>
>Are nuclear weapons illegal for everybody

No.  Only systems that belong to the Imperium are affected by that Imperial
Law.

>Question 7
>
>When does the imperium interfere in a member worlds affairs . So like when
>the mysterious strike assignment from the naval characters generation comes
>into it .

I would say that any world where there was a political uprising agianst the
loyal Imperial supporting goverment.

>Question 12
>
>It took me an average 5 hours to make up a vehicle . How does Scott Kellog
>find the time, I mean geez .....

I can't speak for Scott, but software and spreadsheets come in real handy.

>Question 14
>
>I tried to make a scout vessel (as the one from the encyclopedia) and
>absolutly nothing was acurate . As it turned out the power listed for vessels
>in the encyclopedia were on average 3 times the power I worked out for them

That is another general complaint of the MT rules.  One of the things that bugs
me about the ship generation is that you can't build a decient starship below
TL14.

>Question 15
>
>How different is the robot rules in book 8 different from the ones published
>in 79 in the best of traveller journal . (Which I have a copy)

I am trying to remember those books.  I think book 8 was an expansion of the
JTAS artical.  There was another robot system in one of the Dragon Magazines
that we used alot which was totally different.

>What does exactly NOE mean ???

Nap Of the Earth.  It is used in aircraft which describes flying an aircraft
close to the earths terrain.  It is typically listed as NOE speed, or the speed
in which the craft can fly and make flight adjustments based on the terrain.
For example, an FB-111 with it's terrain following radar has a much higher NOE
speed than an F-4 without.


>1) Officers get promoted once a term, and not dependant on assignments (
>except say garrison . So an army lieut gets promoted on an internal sec)

That is true, but the promotion is not automatic.  And they only get one
promotion every four years.

>2) College : 4 yours at college to recieve a pidling extra educ points . How
>about instead of gaining educ points, gain levels of academic . So a character
>could have studied history, or genetics or something like that at college .

Makes sense.  Maybe MT-III will include that.

>3) Flight School : Is this one year or 4 . Could you spend brownie points
>to gain extra pilot skills, The descriptions and tables seem to be different
>from each other for advanced characters (I mean in naval academy, flight
>school etc)

Flight School is 2 years unless you wash out, in which case it is one.  You
can't just spend brownie points to get skills.  You could however, use them to
modify your chances to get the skills you role for.

>4) Traveller Aid Society . The description in the book isnt all that clear ...
>Do travellers members pay for accomodation while travelling, How do they prove
>thier identity as a traveller member .

Yes, they have to pay.  Think of TAS as the AAA of space.  There is free
information and suggestions on good places to stay and eat.  Plus they will get
you out of trouble at times.  I would assume that TAS issues an ID card.

>5) Naval Bases and Scout Bases
>
>How big is a naval base (very roughly, like how many ships etc)
>How big is a scout base (as above)
>
>Do the staff at bases count as members of the population

Base size will vary.  See the MT book "Rebellion" for more details.

>6) Non Imperial Military Bases : What exactly are they ????

Generic title for military bases for non-imperial worlds, such as the Swords
Worlds, etc.

Rob Miracle

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3301
Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 9:26:34 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (3284) Re: A Little Joke (Agility)

Steve writes:
> Subject: (3284) Re:  A Little Joke (Agility)
> 
> 
> This little drone with the massive agility and supposedly no propulsion
> unit doesn't make sense, though.  To be able to dodge, the craft will need
> to be able to apply a thrust in some direction, right?...

As the designer, I quite agree.  It makes no sense whatsoever.  It is, however,
_legal_ by the current rules, and as the folks on GEnie insisted to me, _the
way the rule is intended to be_.  I wrote the ship up as part of a protest
to show how stupid the rule is.

Rob Dean




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3302
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 08:29:51 CST
From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: GDW Pubs, Re: 3295,3294

Has anyone heard anything about the GDW publications: Diaspora and 
Hard Times? I came across some advertisements the other day (can't
remember where though) and I remember Marc Miller taking about them
at Origins. The ad stated that one of them was to be available in
early December.

bonnevil@stolaf.edu (TML msg 3295) writes:

> On Credit:  I don't think the Imperium operates on an interstellar
> credit system like ours.Travel time would make collecting payments
> . . .

I guess a card debit system would work but what about non-Imperials
or non-megacorp employees? Or for that matter visitors from those
small out of the way planets? My brain is rusty this morning, but is
there a banking megacorp? And does it extend beyond the Imperium(i.e.
into Vargr, Aslan, Solomani, etc. territory).

I would assume that each system used would be different from the 
others. Each would have their own 'best' method of implementing
the security features. 

On a similar note. How are identifications achieved? As in, how could
anyone prove who they are? 

d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (TML msg 3294) writes:

> I belive that we have seen this in action at least once, and that was
> one of the reasons behind why I said that unless a core group of 
> persons in physical contact with each other is placed as the spiders 
> in the net, there is no way anything comm*rcially successful will 
> come out of TML.

I wouldn't say they would have to be in physical contact (it would help
though) but someone, the project leader for instance, would have the
final decision as agreed upon by the others. 

I made a similar observation in an earlier posting (msg 3131 Nov 20)
about putting together some house rules. The TDR seems to be the
closest thing to this but from what I read it is very sketchy at best.

If a commercial product was produced I would think some sort of
corporation would have to be formed in order to operate. However,
that would create another set of problems.

I have an idea but I'll save it for later. :-)

Mike Surman

"You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read it in the
orginal Klingon." 


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3303
Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 9:55:30 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (3286) Re: General Traveller Questions

Edmund writes:
>
> Subject: (3286) Re: General Traveller Questions
> 
> Question 1
> Can you give me an extended description of planetary governments 

No, not really.  There is a slightly extended sequence in the World Builder's 
Handbook, but it really doesn't tell you much more.  It's one of the things you
pretty much have to make up if you want detail.

> The vilani / vargr and solomani / aslan books wont be ordered by my book

Hmmm...well, they're making a mistake, because they are quite good.

> So I dont suppose you have (very brief so as not to piss you off) any info

Not really.  I mean, you could always just add +1 to Aslan Str and -1 to Aslan 
Dex, and do the opposite for Vargr, and then run them through the normal 
system, but that doesn't have much flavor.

> Question 7
> 
> When does the imperium interfere in a member worlds affairs . So like when
> the mysterious strike assignment from the naval characters generation comes 
> into it . 

Only when they absolutely have to.  There are not really any examples that I
can immediately think of in the existing Traveller literature to support
much more of an answer.


> Question 11
> 
> Whose the guy who regards himself as an expert on military affairs in 
> traveller (as in the one who has access to email)

Not me, really.  Adrian Hurt, Marc Volovic, and Bertil Jonell are all vocal
on this topic (or have been in the past...)

> Question 12
> 
> It took me an average 5 hours to make up a vehicle.  How does Scott Kellogg

Scott definately uses a spreadsheet.  However, since he just headed home for
Christmas, he won't be around for a few days to give details.  I just use
a pad of graph paper and start putting things down in columns.  You get faster
the more you do, and you figure out pretty soon which things can be safely
ignored, and how to plan ahead a little bit.  I've got a set of 'guidelines'
I wrote up once before, which I'll dig out and repost.
> 
> Question 13 
> 
> The power (in megawatts) in the vehicle creation system is really unclear,
> I dont suppose you have a clearer definition . 

Probably I can, but you'll have to be a little more specific.  The first thing 
to do is to check out the very important little chart on the lower right corner
of the power plants page heade "Economies of Scale" or some such.  Any large
fusion plant delivers three times the listed basic output, which is critical
in ship design although a little less so for vehicles.  

> Question 14
> 
> I tried to make a scout vessel (as the one from the encyclopedia) and
> absolutly nothing was acurate . As it turned out the power listed for vessels
> in the encyclopedia were on average 3 times the power I worked out for them

Regrettably the ships in the I.E. are full of flaws, errors, and typos.  
Regarding the 3x business, though, might it have something to do with the
economy of scale chart?

> Question 15
> 
> How different is the robot rules in book 8 different from the ones published
> in 79 in the best of traveller journal . (Which I have a copy)

As I recall, it's more of an elaboration than a replacement, with the exception
of the section on design of brains.  Certainly as an approximation, anything
built using the rules from the old JTAS articles can be duplicated with Book 8.


> Star Vikings, based on Pipers space vikings ???

In a nutshell, yes.

> 5) Naval Bases and Scout Bases
> 
> How big is a naval base (very roughly, like how many ships etc) 
> How big is a scout base (as above)
> 
> Do the staff at bases count as members of the population 

Most scout bases shown in the literature have been quite small--no more than
four or five landing sites plus a repair/refueling facility.  I figure that
most naval bases that are not located on high population worlds are also
rather small, with few ships permanently based there.  Their refueling 
facilities may be substantial, though, based on the Fifth Frontier War board
game rules.


> 8) What exactly are the official guidelines for vehicle creation . It 
> seemed that all the creators in the archives (well the bundles) had thier own
> idea

There are no official guidelines, except for the design rules.  You are right,
we designers all have our own pet theories and standard methods, but most all
the stuff posted here has been legal under the rules.  I expect most work along
the lines of:

     1. Consider what the vehicle needs to do.
     2. Consider whether price or performance is more important.
     3.  Consider if any special features are needed due to intended use,
        such as sonar for a sea vehicle, or heavier than usual armor for
        corrosive atmospheres.
     4.  Start designing.
     5.  Evaluate completed design...was it fast enought, did it carry enough 
         cargo, or whatever.
     6. If not, start over at step 4.


> 9) How far out are the vehicles in the encyclopedia from the truth ?

Pretty far in some cases.  Sad but true.


Others have handled some of the other questions...

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3304
Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 10:02:47 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (3300) Re: General Traveller Questions

Rob Miracle writes:
>>Question 14
>>
>>I tried to make a scout vessel (as the one from the encyclopedia) and
>>absolutly nothing was acurate . As it turned out the power listed for vessels
>>in the encyclopedia were on average 3 times the power I worked out for them
>
>That is another general complaint of the MT rules. One of the things that bugs
>me about the ship generation is that you can't build a decent starship below
>TL14.

Well, it depends on your definition of decent.  Personally, I think of 13 as 
the bottom end of 'what's militarily useful', given the present Imperial
situation, and TL11 as the bottom end of 'what's commerically useful'.

What did you mean?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3305
Date:         Thu, 12 Dec 91 09:12:31 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      GENIE Compilation


After reading through the numerous files that people have posted,
here's a vague synopsis. I'm sure I'll probably not match what everyone
had in mind, so if there's something you severely disagree with, say so.
(Like I have to tell this group anything about speaking out). Anyway, here
it is.

The largest compaint/recurring thought was the proofreading and format
of the publications from GDW. The ideas are often presented poorly, and
information is often hard to find. The general thought behind this was:
please proof your publications better, and ley them out in a consistent
format.

The second hotest topic to recur was the idea of keeping the same task
system. Barring that, the next biggest round was for keeping a good task
system, although few people have posted anything about it since the
system that GDW had in mind was explained.

Beyond this, everyone began to shatter into their own ideas of what was
really needed in Traveller 3. Some of ideas were:
>Keep the basic rules simple, but include complex designs in supplements
>Revert the desgin process to Striker type rules for the serious
ironmongery
>Include details and thoughts as to life (economics, robots, medical)
in the future and make rules to keep up with this.
>Fix the science rules so that it is reasonably consistant with some basic
ides, like conservation of energy. Mostly this revolves around Power plants
and propulsion systems.

Hope this provides something of use,
                                             Joe

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Joe Heck
(314) 882-2131

InterNet: CSPECJH@umcvmb.missouri.edu
BitNet:   CSPECJH@UMCVMB
cc:Mail:  MUCCGW.CSPECJH@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3306  12-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Designer's Notes << The following information
3307  12-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: potential energy in the Traveller (and ot
3308  12-Dec-91 bart@cs.uoregon.e Fusion Neutrons (Re: (3282) ENERGY and Travel
3309  12-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    More Designs, what else? << I've been trying 
3310  12-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Operating Expenses << Mike Surman suggested i
3311  12-Dec-91 salamon@sdbio2.UC College << Hi Everyone! (And Happy Holidays, 
3312  12-Dec-91 "J.A.F.O."        general << Running a campaign set aboard a sm
3313  12-Dec-91 "J.A.F.O."        A query << with all this furore over post-reb
3314  13-Dec-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e Re: General Questions << Mike Surman <surman@
3315  13-Dec-91 givler@bermuda.ra Re: (3302) Re: 3295 << :bonnevil@stolaf.edu (
3316  13-Dec-91 givler@bermuda.ra Question about TDR. << Where can I get copies
3317  13-Dec-91 richard@agora.rai Re: Starship Passengers and... << ... and eve
3318  13-Dec-91 "C. Roald"        grav potential energy << >: What is the equat

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3306
Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 10:35:20 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Designer's Notes

The following information has been posted here before.  Old timers can skip
to the next message.  (-:

Rob Dean



Date:     Tue, 4 Sep 90 16:36:47 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: (1529)  Thoughts on Vehicle Design

I've been at the drawing boards again.  After thinking about it, there seemed 
to be a few useful(?) reminders to those who want to do a bunch of designs.

SO:

How to Design a Traveller Vehicle Quickly (Rob's Rules)
       (without using a computer)

Rule#1: If it doesn't matter, don't worry about it.  The most critical example 
of this is power consumption for electronics on most vehicles.  Unless a 
vehicle is extremely small, the total of these values is almost always negli-
ble.  Thus, you can size your power plant at the beginning of the process 
based on an estimate of power required for weapons, environmental controls 
(only if grav plates are being used), and grav/thruster use.  There are a 
couple of rules of thumb to remember.  "Full environment" (basic env, basic 
and extended life support, grav plates and inertial compensation) uses 
1MW/displacement ton.  If your vehicle is heavily armored, the three most 
massive components are likely to be the hull, the grav drive, and the power 
plant.  You can fuss with these numbers to get a good estimate of grav per-
formance.

Rule#2: Decide what is critical first, and set your hull size accordingly. For 
example, I wanted a TL12 small vehicle carrying a Plasma-B gun.  Energy on 
that is 13.5 MW, dictating a power plant of at least 6kl.  Usually I build 
vehicles around 1)the weapon 2) The accomodations (i.e., if you need roomy 
seats for 16 people, this will drive the rest of the design) or 3) The speed.

Rule#3: Decide what factor is being optimized, and ignore the rest--this 
usually means that in working on a combat vehicle I set the armor and weapon 
and let the speed come out to be whatever it will be, or in building an inex-
pensive vehicle I don't add any "chrome", or in building a fast vehicle I 
avoid as many massive add-ons as possible.  

Rule#4: Having one vehicle makes a variant very easy--something like the 4 
Tiger class vehicles I posted a while ago took 40 minutes to do the first, and 
maybe 10 minutes apiece for the others, even including the time to write 
everything down again, because 95% of each one was copied from the previous 
one.

Rule#5: Unless it really doesn't work, finish every design:  Real governments 
have put some dreadful designs in the field, based usually on a false concept 
of the conditions the vehicle would face, and there is no good reason that  
things should be any better in the future.  So unless the hull is too small to 
stuff everything into, or you've put so much armor on that it can't possibly 
fly, finish it.  (And assign it to that country/world you don't like...)

Rule#6: Governments don't care what it costs.  I have the dubious pleasure of 
working for the U.S. Army as a civilian engineer, and this is certainly true. 
So when I'm doing military vehicles, I pile in the sensors and other chrome. 
How much is 5% extra capability worth in combat???


SOME NOTES ON THE DEAN DESIGN COLLECTION

Since quite a few of my designs have accumulated by this time, I thought I had 
better assemble a few comments on the unofficial changes I have made to var-
ious elements of the design systems to allow people to reinterpret them to 
taste. 

These notes include interpretations, changes, presumed errata corrections and 
miscellaneous comments, and are keyed to the design system flowchart. 

Basic Hull Design:

I generally ignore the ambiguous maximum armor rule from the narrative, for 
two reasons- it makes no sense as there is really no limit to how thick a 
piece of steel can be, and increasing price and weight cause their own penal-
ties.

On many vehicles I ignore the turret rules if I can fit all my components into 
the base volume.  If the hull weight/cost tables were linear instead of dis-
continuous, there would be no difference between the cost and weight (the 
important factors) of a hull 10 +40% turret and a hull 14.  Power requirements 
to move the turret are almost always neglible in the overall design, unless 
you have a very large turret on a small vehicle with a tiny power 
supply--which has never come up in a "realistic" design.

Power Supply:

The incredible fuel consumption for fission plants given in the book has been 
discussed at some length on the list in the past.  Let it suffice to say that 
I usually use the .003 kl/year rule that I suggested, and anyone who disagrees 
may apply an appropriate fudge factor to the endurance of any of my fission 
designs.  Fuel cells are the best high tech power system for anything up to 
about 2 or 3 megawatts.  If you need more, go fusion--small fusion plants are 
useless except as technological curiosities. I generally have no problem with 
installing more energy consuming devices than the power plant can run at one 
time, so long as important limits are noted (e.g. no maneuver drive and energy 
weapons at the same time) and all important systems can be powered at the same 
time (maneuver and life support at a minimum). There has been discussion in 
Traveller's Digest and on the list regarding fractional use of power plants.  
I consider this to be reasonable, and recent designs list endurance at typical 
power settings as well as at maximum power.  Fuel usage is  considered to be 
proportional to energy output, an assumption which should possibly be modified 
for small vehicles whose lower energy levels are below the "economy of scale" 
factors.  Batteries should probably have their control point requirements 
ignored, and should also probably be rated in terms of hours at the expected 
output requirement.  Thus, if you have 1-MW/hr of batteries, you could figure 
a ground vehicles speed either on the basis of 1MW of output with a 1 hour 
endurance, or 0.5MW output with a two hour endurance, or some other reasonable 
combination.  My feeling is that there would probably be a  design limit to 
the speed with which the batteries could be discharged. Starship power re-
quirements can usually be estimated at the start of a design by figuring the 
desired life support (all goodies works out to 1MW per disp ton), the maneuver 
drive requirment, and any weapons and shields you want to be able to use at 
the same time as the maneuver drive.

Locomotion:

My recent designs have been listed with two sets of statistics for maneuver
drives, one being the straight Maneuver=3 or whatever, and the second being
(Thrusters=3250t) or the like.  Those numbers are calculated on the basis of
one thruster or anti-grav maneuver unit = 650t thrust, which corresponds to
equal energy consumption for anti-grav units.  In this rationalization  
thrusters require more energy to do whatever double talk allows them to oper-
ate beyond gravity wells at full efficiency.  Although I haven't done it, my 
extrapolation would permit thruster units to be placed in any size craft, so 
long as the unit is at least 0.4 "units" large. (5.4kl minimum). For most 
player-class craft, these rules result in approximately the same amount of 
total acceleration capability.  I have a disagreement with the rules over the 
agility question, which I have discussed at great length before.   In essence, 
I have always played that ships may have multiple devices which use the "same" 
power (but not at the same time), so that maneuver power can be fed to the 
weapons as long as you are willing to accept a reduced or zero acceleration as 
a result.  Between that habit, and some calculations about vectors, angles and 
so forth of space combat, I am firmly convinced that the most important factor 
in a ship's ability to avoid being hit in space combat is dependent on the 
gross effects of its maneuver drive, and that agility should therefore be 
equal to drive rating, provided that you are not "double dipping" the drive 
power for weapons.  I have always believed that this was the intent of High 
Guard, and I think it works well with the thruster tons suggestion above for 
acceleration, since it has the desired effect of making heavily armored ships 
slow and non-agile.  More comments on this under weapons.

In the thrust based suspensions for smaller vehicles, it should be noted that
the minimum thrust for standard grav is one ton, the minimum for low power
heavy grav is 0.4 tons, and the minimum for low power light grav is 0.1 tons.
Except at the very lowest thrusts and power levels, a tradeoff analysis will
always favor standard grav.  Example tanks in 101 Vehicles using LP-HGrav
could have their overall costs reduced by 50% by using std grav, even includ-
ing the need for additional fusion plant and higher thrust to maintain per-
formance.

In contact based suspension, the minimums for volume of wheels and tracks as
revised by the errata (1.5 and 2% respectively) are fairly generous.  Striker
heavily penalized high ground pressure vehicles (reasonably), and although
the complexity is probably not merited in MegaTraveller, I have always aimed
to keep my ground pressures around the 5-6 dividing line between high and
low off road performance in deference to reality.  The rules are also unclear
as to whether P/W should be figured using total power or power after all other
devices are powered.  Because of the method of calculating transmission size,
I have assumed the former, which means that the "power requirments" of the
wheels and tracks can pretty much be ignored.  If there is any doubt, the
power plant must supply at least enough to power the suspension, but I'd
figure that into the P/W.  Thus, it's only effect is to put a lower boundary
on a vehicles power plant size, which is unlikely to be a problem unless you
are trying to use batteries or some such.

Communications:

In almost all cases, except for very small vehicles and low tech level de-
vices, the only important factor for communicators in the final design is 
price.  I usually don't get too worked up over having .03MW of power used for 
electronics in a craft with 2MW of power, so I frequently ignore them when 
adding up power requirements. I also usually like to have a back-up communica-
tor on board all spacecraft. Just a matter of taste.  The credits saved by 
leaving out the  backup are usually negligible in a starship design.

Sensors and Electronics:

As with communicators, most of the time price is the only important factor.
Lower tech large EMS arrays may end up using enough power to worry about, and
military vehicles sensors may be important.  Don't forget that active and
passive EMS include all the smaller single purpose electromagnetic sensors.

Weapons:

The meson gun is the king of starship weapons.  Nothing else available at
Imperial tech levels will kill a ship with one shot.  Armor is irrelevant
to meson guns, and screen are really only effective against the smaller
ones.  Thus, no battleship needs to be bigger than necessary to carry and
serve the meson gun.  Since agility is one of the better defenses, and my
version of agility calculations places a premium on light armor, I'm finding
that there may be some limited utility in large particle accelerators to
damage and inhibit the construction of unamored meson gun carriers.
Lighter armor also gives fighter and SDBs something to do, though they had
better have large computers to be effective at TL15.

While the rules are clear about turrets taking up 13.5kl regardless of the
number of weapons installed, the TD example starship construction from
issue #14 incorrectly shows triple laser turrets taking up 40.5kl.  I also
usually figure that the turret weight about the same regardless of the 
number of weapons, which is probably not what is intended.  On most ships
the difference is not significant.  Any of my ships without specified missile
magazines need to load missiles in cargo space.

I have used turret mounted direct fire mortars in some designs of TL8 and 9
military vehicles.  These are not permitted by the rules, but exist in the
real world, so I extrapolated.

Cluster bomblets, tactical missiles, and rocket launcher artillery should be
put back into the game from Striker for use in military adventures.

Mass driver gun calculations should give rate of fire in rounds per second,
not round per minute.  (Error in Striker translation).  Without making this
change, MD guns are probably not cost effective.

Point Defense rules need to be put back in from Striker.

Screens:

All meson screen power consumptions should be divided by ten according to
Trav Digest#14. (e.g. UCP1=.015, UCP2=.03)  I have left specifics of 
obscuration devices off of recent military vehicle designs.  Their power,
weight and cost are negligible, and if needed I would specify a reasonable
number before combat (say 3 or 4 dozen maximum).  I don't like the little
sandcasters because I don't think the particles would stay airborne long 
enough to do much.  No rules for any of these gadgets are provided, either.

Bridge:

I usually go ahead and put in basic env, basic ls, ext ls, grav plates and
inertial compensators for the entire volume of a starship.  I haven't found
that it drives power requirments up too horribly for merchant ships.

To maintain consistency, I do calculate the control point requirements for the
hull, despite my difficulty with increased armor requiring more control.

For a military starship, there can be no excuse for not putting in the biggest
computer available at your tech level.

Based on the Starship Operator's Manual descriptions, I almost always use 
holographic linked panels when available, because I figure the using character
would want them.  I try not to install more add-ons than I have crew members
to use them. 101 Vehicles has an implied rule change allowing you to use 
linked panels without a computer, which I have never taken advantage of.

Accommodations:

Rule 3, reduced vehicle gunners, still looks bad after the errata: (C+S)/W,
since S is usually substantially larger than C, and I'd think that your
computer would have more to do with it.  What I use is X=C/(W/S) and some
common sense.

Rule 4, supplanted vehicle commander says X=(T-S)/C, which has the effect of
making it impossible to get rid of the vehicle commander if the total cost
of the vehicle apart from the sensors is greater than 100,000C/TL.  The best
value of C/TL is 8 at Comp 9, TL15, and Cr800,000 doesn't buy much of a
TL15 grav tank.  I think that X=(T/S)/C, plus some common sense works better.

In very light vehicles, I usually calculate the weight of seats at 0.1t rather
than 0.02t to allow for the weight of the passenger.  This is almost always
ignorable on large vehicles.

Starship command crews look awfully bloated to me, especially in cases where I
am carrying a 130 man marine company on a small vessel.  I usually reduce them
with the same formula as the bridge crew, which satisfies my prejudices.  If
the total was less than 10, there was no reduction.

Fuel:

If necessary, ships could jump as soon as the fuel processor had done enough
fuel for the jump, rather than waiting for the full load to be processed.
Fuel scoops and purifiers are almost always economically justified.

Design Evaluation:

For all of my vehicles unless otherwise noted, the prices *do not* include
a bulk discount.  Cost of small craft is included unless otherwise noted, or
a generic description (e.g. 1*4ton vehicle) is the only mention.
In grav vehicle speeds, I usually give them in terms of the "vacuum" speed,
so they should be multiplied by .9 for standard atmosphere, to taste.  I have
also interpolated values on occasion.  If you tried to use the rules as 
written, many airframe configuration craft could go faster in thin atmosphere
than in a vacuum, which doesn't look right.  Purists might wish to recalculate
lift requirements for grav vehicles based on local gravity. I don't usually
bother.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3307
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 11:01 EST
Subject: Re: potential energy in the Traveller (and other) universe

: From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
: Subject: Re: potential energy in the Traveller (and other) universe
: 
: What is the equation relating potential energy to distance, once you allow
: for the fact that gravitational attraction is itself dependent on distance?
: Specifically, does your potential energy increase or decrease as your distance
: from the attracting body increases?  I know the simple equation for potential
: energy assuming that gravity is constant, which is a reasonable approximation
: as long as you don't get too far from Earth, but which is useless at distances
: such as from Earth to the Moon.  I never did take Physics beyond high school,
: unfortunately!

I don't remember the formula either.  I think that there is a certain
amount of energy which is enough to overcome ALL of the gravitational
potential energy of the Earth.  If you assume that energy is kinetic
energy, then you can divide out mass from the equations and get an
escape velocity.  I would say that for a jump drive to land you 1/2
way between Sol and Alpha Centauri, it would have to expend more than
enough energy to bring the ship to escape velocity.

Also, I might have misled you by saying that both Sol and Alpha Centauri
dominate the equations.  This would be true perhaps if a ship jumped
directly from Sol to Alpha Centauri.  Jumping only half way, though...
Hmm...  I guess that you do lose potential energy over that 2 lightyear
span.  I don't know how much it would account for so far away from
Alpha Centauri, though.

I was thinking along the lines of Larry Niven style jump drives, I guess.
In that case, jumps are made between stars, not into open space.

: > True, but I don't think Traveller was THAT broken.  Some of the
: > stats might have to be altered or given further constraints.
: 
: Well, the fact that the computer rules are going to have to be rewritten will
: make ship designs obsolete.  Besides, most MT ships are designed at TL 15,
: and are therefore knocked out by this stupid virus.  The same probably goes
: for any TL 15 vehicle more advanced than an air/raft.  If the drive rules are
: changed, so that fuel and drives take up more or less volume, then old ships
: will be either illegal or sufficiently inferior to be useless.

OK, so maybe altering the stats won't be enough.  But Jump-4 and
Maneuver-3 should still be understandable under the new system.
Also, they should have at least the same range of weapons and
equipment.  If I have characters aboard a ship in the old system,
I want to be ABLE to convert to the new system.  And I don't want
to have to give up my repulsor bay because these are not included
in the new rules.

: > Actually, if you want realistic rolls, you should provide for
: > open-ended die rolls.  For example, use a d12 numbered from
: > 0-11, where 11 means roll again and add 10, and 0 on the first
: > roll only means roll again and subtract from 0.  This makes it
: > possible for anyone to succeed or fail tremendously at any
: > task.
: 
: Apart from the D12 (who needs yet another sort of die? :-) I'd agree
: with that.

You're right, and open-ended rolls can be made on d6's (6 means
roll again and add 5, 1 means roll again and subtract 5 -- once
you roll a 6 or 1, the other (1 or 6) loses its special meaning).

: > If GDW decides to use d20, however, they should NOT make the
: > low rolls mean success.  People naturally tend to think of
: > high rolls as success.
: 
: On the other hand, it means that all those loaded dice are going to be
: useless.  I quite like the idea of having some things be successful on
: high rolls, and some things be successful on low rolls.  Just watch
: for people who have two sets of dice.  :-)

Why not just load the dice to always roll 10's and load up on skills?
8-)

gsw

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3308
Subject: Fusion Neutrons
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 13:45:19 -0800
From: bart@cs.uoregon.edu


Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com) writes:
> For fusion, there is a problem with fuel -- ordinary
> hydrogen does not have enough (or any) neutrons to fuse
> into helium.  Thus, current fusion uses heavy hydrogen
> (deuterium or tritium) which is found in SMALL amounts
> along with normal hydrogen.  Refinement of fuel could
> then mean either selecting out all of the heavy hydrogen
> or better yet MAKING most of the hydrogen "heavy".  It
> could also be possible to burn normal hydrogen, but you
> would need to find a way to "donate" neutrons to the
> reaction.  Note that this would probably be harder and
> more damaging to the reactor than pre-treating the
> hydrogen in the first place.


I'm not sure exactly what the objection is here.  As you know,
the primary solar fusion reaction involves purely light
hydrogen.  The key observation is that a hydrogen *atom is* a
neutron -- QUESTION: what's the difference between a
proton-electron pair and a neutron?  ANSWER: a mass defect and
a bunch of empty space.  A free neutron will eventually decay
into a proton and electron, and release a tiny bit of energy.
If the objection is that the barrier potential to overcome to
squeeze a p-e pair into a neutron is very large, I'll concede
this, but I've always assumed they could just do it, at least
by TL14 or so...


Comments?


					Bart Massey
					bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3309
Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 16:52:58 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  More Designs, what else?

I've been trying to get back into a designing mood for the last couple of days
(for reasons best known to Mark Cook and Metlay), and came up with these two.
A comment or two on the rules:  It's been pointed out here that the rules 
state that a starship should have three computers.  They do not, however,
say that these three have to be of the same model.  I've used this dodge 
once or twice before, and when I do, I almost always calculate the control 
and crew requirements based on the worst computer, and the combat modifications
based on the best computer.  I made a small exception with the Starflare
shown below.  If the gunnery crew is figured on the basis of the Model 5 
computer, 19 gunners are needed to operate the four turrets and the damper.
This seemed a little excessive--1 per turret plus 15 for the damper?  After
all, these things are 'optimized' because by TL15 they are old and well
understood technology.  Using the Model 9 resulted in 5 gunners--one per
turret and one for the damper which seemed a little more reasonable.

Trying to shoehorn everything into the Starflare was a bit of a mess.  In
the process I decided that I had better give the detailed fuel use numbers,
in case anyone actually wanted to use one of these things.  (I think it
would work nicely as the main ship in the adventure from MTJ#2.)  I see
no reason why the maneuver drive should be running in Jump space, which
means that a detailed fuel use calculation should probably allow for 
power only for life support in Jump.


Good Gaming,

Rob Dean



Kontos class Fighter-Launch TL15

     The Kontos class is the result of a design project sponsored by the 
Planetary Navy of Mora in 1110.  The prototype was completed by the notorious 
Moran branch of TrinTechnics in late 1112, on time and slightly under budget.  
Flight testing was satisfactory, and the Moran Navy contracted with TrinTech-
nics for a full scale production run beginning in 1114.  Several hundred 
craft were completed when news of Emperor Strephon's assassination reached 
Mora.  The production line was expanded shortly thereafter, and sales were 
permitted to registered armed vessel operators (Starmercs).  By 1121, over 
two thousand had been produced.

     The Kontos is popular among small AVOs due to its clever multi-purpose 
design, which gives a great deal of operational flexibility without impairing 
the craft's usefulness as a fighter.  For most operations the relatively 
short endurance is not a problem.  Bunks are installed to provide a minimum 
level of long-term accommodation for the regular two man crew if a multi-day 
patrol is necessary.  The asymmetrical computer installation allows easy 
operation in routine conditions and good combat responsiveness at a low cost, 
with some loss of damage capacity. The Model 7 computer installation accounts 
for nearly 50% of the cost of the base model.  Some production models have 
also been sold with a down-sized battle computer installation--a Model 5 set 
up at a total cost of MCr27.58, and a Model 3 set up at a total cost of 
MCr21.69.
     
  CraftID: Kontos Class Fighter-Launch, TL15, MCr35.285
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Conf=1AF, Armor=40G, Loaded=275t, 
           Unloaded=267t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=522MW, Dur=5 days
     Loco: 3/6, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=2210t), TrueAcc=8.03G,
           MaxSpeed=4500kph, Cruise=3375kph, NOE=190kph, Agility=8
     Comm: Radio=System, MaserComm=System
  Sensors: EMM,  EMS Active(Far Orbit), EMS Jammer(Far Orbit),
           EMS Passive(Interplanetary), ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout,
           PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=1

               Missile=x02     BeamLaser=xx2
           Batteries     1                 1
           Bearing       1                 1

      Def: DefDM+17

              SandCaster=xx3
           Batteries       1
           Bearing         1

  Control: CompMod1*2, CompMod7*1, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=2 (Pilot/Commander, Gunner), Passengers=8, 
           Seats=ExtOccRoomy*10, Bunks*2, Env=basic env, basic ls, extended 
           ls, grav plates, inertial comp, airlock
    Other: Fuel=31.32kl, Cargo=5.5kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=None, Missile 
           Magazine=20 missiles (20 b-r)

Starflare class Close Escort TL15

     The Starflare was designed and produced by the Mora branch of TrinTech-
nics.  The first test model was completed in early 1114.  The Starflare 
exhibits a number of typical TrinTechnics design features: the asymmetrical 
computer installation, short endurance, and general multi-task design in 
particular.  TrinTechnics designers attempted to wedge as many useful fea-
tures as possible into the Starflare, with the nuclear damper installation 
perhaps being the most unusual in a  vessel of this size.  This was prompted 
by a perceived need to defend against small Vargr vessels with easy access to 
nuclear weapons.  A small troop contingent, a slight surplus capacity in 
accommodations, and provision of cold sleep chambers for prisoners allows a 
Starflare to engage in boarding and capture operations.  As of 1120, no navy 
in the Domain of Deneb had ordered more than a few test examples of the Star-
flare, usually citing the low endurance as the cause of rejection.  However, 
23 of the vessels have been produced for private purchasers.
     
  CraftID: Starflare class Close Escort, TL15, MCr415.9 including fighters
     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=1AF, Armor=49G, Unloaded=4791t,
           Loaded=5577t
    Power: 24/48, Fusion=6480MW, Dur=13 days at full maneuver power (see 
           note)
     Loco: 18/36, Jump=4, 40/80, Maneuver=4 (Thrusters=28.6kt),
           TrueAcc=5.12G, Max=3400kph, Cruise=2550kph, NOE=190kph, Agility=5
     Comm: Radio=System*2, LaserComm=System*2, MaserComm=System*2
  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(Far Orbit)*2, EMS Jammer(Far Orbit), EMS
           Passive(Interstellar)*2, High Pen Densitometer(1km), Neutrino
           Sensor(10kw), ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Rout,
           PassObjPin=Rout, PassEnScan=Simp, PassEnPin=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=4

            BeamLaser=xx4     Missiles=x03
           Batteries    2                2  
           Bearing      2                2

      Def: DefDm+15, Optimized Nuclear Damper-1
  Control: Computer Model 5*1, Computer Model 5fib*1, Computer Mod9*1,
           HeadsUpHoloDisplay*6, HoloLink*10
    Accom: Crew=26 (3 Command, 2 bridge, 2 engineer, 2 gunnery, 6 flight,
           6 troops, 2 medical), Passengers=4, Staterooms=15, Low Berths=10, 
           Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=3275kl, Cargo=65kl, Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (24hrs), 
           Subcraft=2*Kontos class fighter-launches (20t), ObjSize=Large,
           EmLevel=Faint
     Note: Fuel usage is as follow: Jump-4=1350kl, Jump-3=1080kl, 
           Jump-2=810kl, Jump-1=540kl.  Full power=4.24kl/hr, full maneuver 
           power=1.75kl/hr, 1-G maneuver power=0.5kl/hr, Life support 
           only=0.2kl/hr.  Operating crew requirements figured on a Mod5 
           computer basis, gunnery crew figured on a Model 9 computer basis.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3310
Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 16:58:28 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Operating Expenses

Mike Surman suggested in his note the other day that we might consider revising
the cost of a starship ticket down, in some revision of the trade and commerce
system.  Along those lines, let me ask if anyone else thinks that Cr2000 per
person per jump seems to be a bit excessive as a life support cost.  In my
recent (hopefully soon to be restarted) game, the cash-poor players often
asked what they were getting for that money, since it was a large part of
what they were otherwise earning.  I couldn't answer...can anyone else?

What do you need to maintain life in space?  Food (cheap), air (cheaper),
water (cheap), power (lots of it on a ship), specialized equipment (already
included in the cost of the ship--extended life support isn't real cheap,
plus we pay annual maintenance on it.)

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3311
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 15:48:56 PST
From: salamon@sdbio2.UCSD.EDU (Andrew Salamon)
Subject: College

Hi Everyone!
  (And Happy Holidays, etc.)

  I did write an extended Scientist Character generation system that included
a more detailed college system.  It should be in the TDR archives and I may
even have an extra copy around here somewhere, in case anyone wanted it.

Andrew "Hiding behind 7-bit ASCII" Salamon     | a.k.a  Bleydion op Rhys
salamon@sdbio2.ucsd.edu     <---Internet       | a.k.a  Jake "Sig Sauer" Hart
Bleyddyn ap Rhys, Bowman                       | a.k.a  Captain Etienne De Mer 
BaR@St-Artemas.Calafia.Caid.SCA                | a.k.a  T'nol of Tiglath Weyr 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3312
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 12:35 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxa.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: general

 Running a campaign set aboard a small warship,  I am frequentlyin the position
 of having a PC do something that may or may not be an infraction of Naval regs
 eg. Rule 37.  What I am considering doing is to produce a handout with a list 
of some sample regs. for my players by way of added background.  Having no RL
experience of the military life (thank ifni) I was wondering just what the 
navy would let you get upto.... just how serious IS being drunk & disorderly in
a star port?  What is the penalty for insulting the ancestry of air traffic
controllers?  This is not an entirely serious list so any S prefix regulations 
 (spoofs) would also be appreciated! :)
eg. Reg S 12.2.2 No crewmember shall cause erroneous sensor readings to be input
to the astrogation computer so as to cause an alert or disturbance of the mental
balance of the navigator during a jump.
S 12.2.2a    The penalty for the imitation of Zhodani battlefleets is 1 weeks
 forfiture of chocolate rations.  
S 12.2.2b The furthur offense of not letting the crew in on the joke first is
 that the captain will sound general quarters and shout a lot.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3313
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 11:52 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxa.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: A query

with all this furore over post-rebellion neo-trav'...what exactly is this
"Hard Times" MT supplement I see advertised in a games catalogue?  I haven't
heard anyone mention it before.
		Curious
			JAFO

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3314
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 09:16:35 CST
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu (Steven Bonneville)
Subject: Re:  General Questions


Mike Surman <surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu> writes --

>I guess a card debit system would work but what about non-Imperials
>or non-megacorp employees? Or for that matter visitors from those
>small out of the way planets? My brain is rusty this morning, but is
>there a banking megacorp? And does it extend beyond the Imperium(i.e.
>into Vargr, Aslan, Solomani, etc. territory).

Hortalez et Cie is primarily involved in banking and such things, as is
Zirunkariish to a lesser degree.  That's one reason they appear so often
as part owners of large portions of other megacorps.  I'd suppose that
both they and the Imperial government's central banks would be involved
in the exchange of foreign currency -- including reputable foreign debit
card withdrawals.  Anyone with this JTAS able to help me here?

>Mike Surman
>
>"You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read it in the
>orginal Klingon."

Or Vargr.  Or Aslan.  :)  I've been toying with this adventure idea where a
travelling theater troupe, running out of cash, decides to try it's luck
bringing ancient Shakespeare plays into the Extents.  They might have to
be careful which plays they pick on some worlds, but it might go over well....

- --Steve Bonneville
<bonnevil@stolaf.edu>

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3315
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 10:48:22 EDT
From: givler@bermuda.rain.COM (Greg Givler)
Subject: Re: (3302) Re: 3295

:bonnevil@stolaf.edu (TML msg 3295) writes:
:
:> On Credit:  I don't think the Imperium operates on an interstellar
:> credit system like ours.Travel time would make collecting payments
:> . . .
:
:I guess a card debit system would work but what about non-Imperials
:or non-megacorp employees? Or for that matter visitors from those
:small out of the way planets? My brain is rusty this morning, but is
:there a banking megacorp? And does it extend beyond the Imperium(i.e.
:into Vargr, Aslan, Solomani, etc. territory).
:

Well Aslan males wouldn't worry about money, at least none of the
Aslan males that I have ever met worry about money.

:I would assume that each system used would be different from the 
:others. Each would have their own 'best' method of implementing
:the security features. 
:

Most of the time we as players and me as GM made sure that you put
your money in a BIG Bank, the First National Bank of Rushu, TL-4 is
not a BIG Bank. But a bank owned by one of the Mega-Corps is.

:On a similar note. How are identifications achieved? As in, how could
:anyone prove who they are? 
:

The way the debit flashes worked in my campaign is that you had an
electronic device, TL-9 that you placed your thumb on a pad. The
print was scanned and analysed. If it was you then whoever you were
paying would have there bank acount or there own DEBIT card credited
with the proper amount. If you don't want to use debit cards so that
that shipment of guns that you just bought is harder to trace, then
use cash. You can do one of two things in that case. You can have
them go through the exchange rate on world, or you can use Imperial
currency through out the Imperium. I have used both. The former is a
lot more work than the latter.

Otherwise you can always not worry about it. That is the easiest
solution of all. Money just gets transferred to and from accounts and
you never have to worry about how.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "By the way, don't eat the figs." - Livia to Tiberius after the death of
                        Augustus - I, Claudius PBS
===============================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3316
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 10:50:40 EDT
From: givler@bermuda.rain.COM (Greg Givler)
Subject: Question about TDR.

Where can I get copies of the TDR stuff. I would like to look it
over. Also since I am in the process of starting a new Traveller
campaign I would probably be working on stuff that could go into TDR.
So a second question is who do you contact with stuff that you have
to contribute to TDR.

Greg

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "By the way, don't eat the figs." - Livia to Tiberius after the death of
                        Augustus - I, Claudius PBS
===============================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3317
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Re: Starship Passengers and...
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 8:48:40 PST

.... and even more on trade and commerce.


Rob Dean asks about Mike Surman's observation that space flight costs so
damn much.

:What do you need to maintain life in space?  Food (cheap), air (cheaper),
:water (cheap), power (lots of it on a ship), specialized equipment (already
:included in the cost of the ship--extended life support isn't real cheap,
:plus we pay annual maintenance on it.)

Well, if I were running a little passenger line between say Efate and
Bounghe, or some such, I'd also throw in:

   salaries of people aboard
   dead-head space (passengers who won't be there for a return flight)
   routine bribes
   PROFIT  (double all yer expenses...)


I guess this is just another symptom of trade and commerce needing fixed
rather than just dusted under the rug.
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3318
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 13:25 -0400
From: "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: grav potential energy

>: What is the equation relating potential energy to distance, once you allow
>: for the fact that gravitational attraction is itself dependent on distance?

The standard form is GPE = - G m1 m2 / r, where r is the separation of 
the two bodies.

>: Specifically, does your potential energy increase or decrease as your distance
>: from the attracting body increases?  I know the simple equation for potential

The physics convention is that potential energy is NEGATIVE, so that it 
increases (gets less negative) as you increase the separation. At 
infinite separation, the PE rises to zero. (A common definition is that 
PE represents how much energy has to be added to bring two objects to 
infinite separation.

>I don't remember the formula either.  I think that there is a certain
>amount of energy which is enough to overcome ALL of the gravitational
>potential energy of the Earth.  If you assume that energy is kinetic

Yes, there is. If a ship's total energy ( KE + (-ve) PE ) is greater 
than zero, the ship is not bound by Earth (assuming PE is measured with 
respect to Earth).  The escape velocity is about 11 km/s--any ship 
moving this fast with respect to Earth has enough kinetic energy to 
escape to infinity--ie, it will never return.

>energy, then you can divide out mass from the equations and get an
>escape velocity.  I would say that for a jump drive to land you 1/2
>way between Sol and Alpha Centauri, it would have to expend more than
>enough energy to bring the ship to escape velocity.

Almost certainly. By that distance, the 1/r factor has made PE with 
respect to Earth so small that almost any kinetic energy will tip the
balance.

There are two other very important factors, Sol and Alpha Centauri, 
however.  At those distances, Earth is completely negligible. A fair
approximation is to assume 2 light-years is a sufficient approximation 
to infinity, and call the potential energy zero. The energy required
to make the jump is then 

	(final energy) - (initial energy) = 0 - (-GmM/r) = GmM/r,

where r is the initial separation. On the other hand, if you were to 
jump from a distance r from Sol to a distance r from AC, then the net
cost of the jump is

	G m M(AC)/r - G m M(Sol)/r = G m [M(AC)-M(Sol)]/r.

A first approximation calls M(Sol) about the same as M(AC), so the net
cost of the jump is ~= 0, plus the drive energy to make a jump of twice 
the distance. On the other hand, GmM/r is the escape energy of Sol, 
which is the kinetic energy required to produce a velocity of ~30 km/s.
For a ship weighing say, 1 T, that's 4.5e11 J, or 450 000 MJ. Not to
be sneezed at.

	roald

- --
Scientific progress goes 'BOINK'?	-- Hobbes

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Thu Dec 19 11:15:40 1991
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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #275: Msgs 3319-3330
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Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 21:00:17 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Dec 18 21:00:12 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #275: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3319  13-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: (3308) Fusion Neutrons << Bart Massey (ba
3320  13-Dec-91 "Carl Fago"       Re: TML nightly: Msgs 3310-3312 V30#10 << Rob
3321  13-Dec-91 Hugh Schoenemann  GENIE: More Classic Traveller << [This came t
3322  13-Dec-91 Ed Sharpe         Slow Drug (Again) << This got mangled the fir
3323  14-Dec-91 Cynthia_Higginbot GENIE: Steve on Trav:New Era << As to my own 
3324  14-Dec-91 Cynthia_Higginbot Random responses << I'm back. This is mostly 
3325  15-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    This week in GEnie << This will be the last o
3326  16-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN a quick note on character generation << DON'T
3327  16-Dec-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: potential energy << This was originally p
3328  16-Dec-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: potential energy << "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC
3329  16-Dec-91 "Dr. Michael Hale Dark Nebula rules << In my last move, I manag
3330  15-Dec-91 Rob Miracle       Re: (3300) Re: General Traveller Questions <<

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3319
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 13:30 EST
Subject: Re: (3308) Fusion Neutrons

Bart Massey (bart@cs.uoregon.edu) writes:
> I'm not sure exactly what the objection is here.  As you know,
> the primary solar fusion reaction involves purely light
> hydrogen.  The key observation is that a hydrogen *atom is* a
> neutron -- QUESTION: what's the difference between a
> proton-electron pair and a neutron?  ANSWER: a mass defect and
> a bunch of empty space.  A free neutron will eventually decay
> into a proton and electron, and release a tiny bit of energy.
> If the objection is that the barrier potential to overcome to
> squeeze a p-e pair into a neutron is very large, I'll concede
> this, but I've always assumed they could just do it, at least
> by TL14 or so...

You're right, and I thought about that after I mailed my last
post.  Of course, that means that if (hopefully when) the GDW
folks decide to make the plant output realistic, they should
subtract the energy needed to create the neutrons from the
energy output of the power plant.  Also, fusion power plants
when first introduced would likely not have this ability, and
would have to use heavy hydrogen as I suggested.  Also, a
plant fusing only heavy hydrogen would have a higher energy
yield than one fusing normal hydrogen (I don't know what the
overall difference is -- I don't have the numbers handy).

This does not invalidate my suggestions, though.  The p-e pair
combination is simply a way of "donating" neutrons that I said
would be needed to fuse normal hydrogen.  Also, it might NOT
be feasible to duplicate this inside of a power plant.  It
still might be easier to use another means to donate neutrons
to the hydrogen before fusing it.

By the way, where does the electron come from?  I was under the
impression that the Sun, at least the part that is fusing, is
very positively ionic.  If this is so, then where are the
electrons coming from?  Is there another form of mass decay
taking place?  Or is this simply one of the means by which the
Sun regulates its rate of fusion?  Or am I simply misinformed?

Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3320
Date:    Fri, 13 Dec 91 13:42 EST
From: "Carl Fago" <CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 3310-3312 V30#10


Rob Dean writes...
>Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 16:58:28 EST
>From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
>Subject: (3310)  Operating Expenses

>Mike Surman suggested in his note the other day that we might consider
>revising
>the cost of a starship ticket down, in some revision of the trade and commerce
>system.  Along those lines, let me ask if anyone else thinks that Cr2000 per
>person per jump seems to be a bit excessive as a life support cost.  In my
>recent (hopefully soon to be restarted) game, the cash-poor players often
>asked what they were getting for that money, since it was a large part of
>what they were otherwise earning.  I couldn't answer...can anyone else?

2000 cr/jump is the _passenger_ rate, is it not?  The crews' lifesupport
is already figured in the cost of the ship expenses.  When I was running
a merchant with a crew, I did not charge the crew for passage.  The cost
of the crews' life support is figured into the cost of the ticket for
a passenger.

>What do you need to maintain life in space?  Food (cheap), air (cheaper),
>water (cheap), power (lots of it on a ship), specialized equipment (already
>included in the cost of the ship--extended life support isn't real cheap,
>plus we pay annual maintenance on it.)

The big item contributing to the cost of a passenger ticket is the ship
cost.  Also, I always assumed good fuel being bought and if I was able to
get fuel skimmed off a gas giant or from an ocean, that went into my pocket
as part of the profits.  Also, I had to be able to maintain and depreciate
the purification plant.

It is not so in-expensive as it seems to be able to run a ship.  I'tt try to
remember to post my balance sheet and calculations used to figure out what
it takes to run a merchant ship.  Let me say this, it was fun.

 *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu    | Be wary of strong drink.     |
             DELPHI - WULFGAR  GEnie - C.FAGO1| It can make you shoot at tax |
 Carl Fago   State College, PA                | collectors -- and miss!      |


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3321
From: Hugh Schoenemann <pyra.co.uk!hugh@sequent.UUCP>
Subject: GENIE: More Classic Traveller
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 17:49:47 GMT

[This came to traveller@dadla - please use traveller@metolius.wr.tek.com
in the future.  I also added GENIE on the subject line -- James]

Good folks,

I  have  read  with  some interest all the  various  comments  from  people
regarding  GDW's  proposed moves to redesign Traveller and thought I  would
throw my hat in the ring.

Like  a good many other correspondents to this thread, I first  encountered
Classic  Traveller  in  the early eighties, laying my  hands  on  virtually
everything  that  GDW put out - the "Little Black" Boxed Set, the  reworked
Big Boxed Set with the improved artwork, various Traveller-associated games
(Snapshot,  Mayday  and  Invasion  Earth), a host of  Traveller  Books  and
Supplements, the GDW-produced Adventures and Double Adventures and numerous
copies  of JTAS.  Even Referees Screens and Traveller posters didn't escape
my notice. In short, GDW produced it, I mostly bought it.

I  took  part in various adventures - Leviathan, Twilight's Peak (IMHO  the
best  there  was)  and various custom adventures to boot.   When  I  wasn't
adventuring,  I was using most (not all) of my Traveller gear to design new
worlds,  ships, peoples etc., modifying those rules I didn't like, couldn't
work with, or thought were "just plain dumb".

So  why  the dedication to the Classic Traveller game and game materials  ?
Am  I  one of those "anally retentive" types that  psychologists  sometimes
speak of, who collect anything from cigarette cards to Faberge eggs ?

No,  not at all.  Classic Traveller was compact, had a rules system  which,
once  understood  in  broad terms, would allow your average user  to  start
playing/designing  fairly  quickly.  I liked the modularity of the  game  :
You  want Mercenaries - buy Book 4.  You don't, don't.  You need more  info
on  the  Spinward Marches ?  Well, here it is ...  and so on (I  think  Rob
Dean made this point earlier this month).  Even the GDW Adventures were, on
the  whole,  well thought out.  They meshed in with the  already  published
materials  whilst, at the same time, allowing the GM a certain latitude  in
adding new twists to the adventures.

So  why  then didn't I move to MegaTraveller or T2K2 or whatever ?   Simply
put,  none  of  it added any value at all to the work I had  put  in  using
Classic  Traveller.  I smelt a marketing rat back then which, to be honest,
I can smell again.

My  belief is that GDW's current moves are influenced by little more than a
need  for  quick revenues, and they view a rewrite of the  Traveller  rules
(because,  all said and done, that's what it is) as the most expedient  way
to  do this.  IMHO, in this they are mistaken.  GDW could quite easily  put
most of their resources into bringing out some high quality, *well-proofed*
adventures, supplements whatever, in the same format as they used to be.  A
new  JTAS,  new  supporting  materials, more software ...   all  these  are
options  which they should consider.  (I would be interested to know  where
most  of  TSR's  revenues  are  derived.   New  players  ?   Supplements  ?
Adventures ? Can someone please shed some light on this ?)

I  also feel (but am willing to be proved wrong) that GDW will have extreme
difficulty  winning  the  hearts, minds and (most importantly to  GDW)  the
wallets of new gamers when there are so many competitive products out there
(Star  Wars,  GURPS etc.).  If they want to compete with these people,  the
materials  should  be just as glitzy, *better proofed* and  easily  played.

The  last  point here is crucial :  I find it hard to believe  that  people
want to read through tomes of rules to resolve game situations ("OK, you're
wearing  Cloth  when you're suddenly hit by a blast from a FGMP  at  medium
range.   Now  if we could just turn to page 18 ...  or is that 23 ?   Aaah,
but it's London and it's raining, so for weather effects I think we'll turn
to  ..."  and  so on).  You see, there has to be  this  constant  trade-off
between realism and playability - a very fine line to tread, and one which,
up until now, GDW have abjectly failed to negotiate.

My parting shot for all you GDW-type folks reading this :  if MegaTraveller
was an admission that Classic Traveller was wrong, and MegaTraveller is (by
GDW's admission) also flawed, what confidence can I have as a mere customer
that  Traveller - The Next Generation, won't also be brain-dead ruleswise ?
When  can  I expect the next rules change after that ?  Can GDW  assure  me
that this is the last rules change they will make and that this will really
be IT ?  I await a reply.

Oh,  and  *please*, GDW, don't expect me to believe that you have  my  best
interests  at  heart  because you are gamers.  Just because you  do  for  a
living  what  you  do  as a pastime does not  necessarily  instil  me  with
confidence.  A friend of mine is a brain surgeon, but he isn't a better one
because he talks brain surgery or lobotomises his cat come the weekend.

BTW,  I  know it sounds like a flame, GDW, but it ain't.  More of an  unlit
Molotov Cocktail. Now if you'd care to bring some matches next time ...

All the best everyone,

Hugh.
- -----



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3322
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 17:02:59 PST
From: Ed Sharpe <esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: Slow Drug (Again)

This got mangled the first time i uploaded it. So i am trying
again.

First some back ground on me.  I consider myself a wargammer who
does RPG's.  Keep this in mind when you flame me.  My latest
traveller campain had the players running a TCL 15 marine
platoon.  I used a lot of Striker rules in the campain.  Anyway
for my problem.  One of the players was something of a munckin
and abused medical slow drug.  To resole that problem I have
written the following set of tasks for the use of medical slow
drug.  I would like your CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of them.  Note: I
used 7+ instead of routine. (or what ever the word is for a roll
of 7+).  Thank you.


The Use of Medical Slow Drug in Traveller

To diagnose the Injury
7+    Medial, Education,        30 Seconds,         Uncertain,    
                                                Non-Repeatable

To Prepare and Administer Medical Slow Drug
7+    Medical, Education,       10 Seconds,         Uncertain,    
                                                Non-Repeatable

To Avoid a Negative Medical Slow Drug Reaction
7+    Medical, Endurance,       3 Hours,            Uncertain,    
                                         Fateful, Hazardous,      
(Doctor, Patient)                             Non-Repeatable

HTK   ==     STR+DEX+END        Recovery     ==     END*3

Failure Table (1, 2, or 3 D6) (Uncertain) 
1     +1/2D6 hours recovery
2     +1D6 hours recovery
3     +2D6 hours recovery
4     +3D6 hours recovery
5     *1D6 hours recovery
6     *2D6 hours recovery
7     *3D6 hours recovery
8     *1D6 hours recovery       1/2 HTK Recovered
9     *2D6 hours recovery       1/2 HTK Recovered
10    *3D6 hours recovery       1/2 HTK Recovered
11    *1D6 hours recovery       No HTK Recovered
12    *2D6 hours recovery       No HTK Recovered
13    *3D6 hours recovery       No HTK Recovered    
14    *3D6 hours in comma, further medical treatment needed, no   
                                HTK recovered. 
15    +3D6 days in comma,  further medical treatment needed, no   
                                    HTK recovered. 
16    +3D6 weeks in comma, further medical treatment needed, no   
                                     HTK recovered. 
17    +1D6 Wounds         *3D6 Hours Recovery       No HTK        
                                               recovered. 
18    +3D6 Wounds         *3D6 Hours Recovery       No HTK        
                                           recovered.

Notes:
      Alien Species raise the difficulty one to two levels
(Referee determined).  Hasty attempts raise the difficulty level
by one & the lower the time factor.  Cautious attempts lower the
difficulty level by one and raise the time factor.  A Hasty Slow
Drug Reaction can not be made.  
      A Cautious Slow Drug Reaction can be made.  The time factor
is doubled. The time of the Slow Drug Reaction is uncertain.
      Without a Diagnosis and Preparation skill roll, a Slow Drug
Reaction roll becomes a 11+ roll, and failure automatically
rolled on 3D6.  For each No Truth result on skill rolls add 1D6
to the failure table.  For each  Some Truth add 1/2D6 to the
failure roll.  ie: a No Truth on the Diagnose, Preparation, and
Reaction roll requires a 3d6 roll on the failure table.


Ed Sharpe
esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu^Z

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3323
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 91 14:56:14 CST
From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agwbbs@cs.tulane.edu (Cynthia Higginbotham)
Subject: GENIE: Steve on Trav:New Era

 
 
As to my own preferences vis a vis this "new Improved" Traveller:
 
1)  Keep the existing character design system with trivial mods.
 
2)  Keep the existing task system.
 
3)  Dump the Starship Design system, and start over with the 2300AD
    system as a basis.
 
4)  Rebuild the world generation system to include the good points from 
    2300AD, specifically the atmosphere rules, and the 
    colony/infrastructure elements.  MT really desperately needs a 
    quickie world infrastructure guideline.
 
5)  Upgrade the power systems to realistic levels.  I have served aboard
    a Nuclear submarine, and the existing fission plant rules are a bad
    joke.  The Fusion rules produce power outputs per liter of hydrogen
    fused which are pathetic.  The anti-matter rules are only off by 
    a factor of a thousand or so, though.
 
6)  Dump that 6G limit.  If you want a 20G battleship, build one.  It 
    would require that 59% of your ship be maneuver drive, and 17% be
    power plant for that maneuver drive, and the remaining 110% would 
    provide fuel for 30 days, but what the hey?  You want it, don't 
    put arbitrary restrictions, let the system provide it's own 
    restrictions.
 
7)  And how about an economic system that works this time????
 
 
                                Steve Higginbotham

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.985b

agwbbs!cynthia_higginbotham@cs.tulane.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3324
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 91 14:59:38 CST
From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agwbbs@cs.tulane.edu (Cynthia Higginbotham)
Subject: Random responses

 
I'm back.
This is mostly in reponse to Mike Surnam's responses to someone's
questions of a few days ago.
Plus a few odds and ends over the last few weeks worth.
Plus anything else I think of.
(note that this is not really planned in advance.)
 
 
>Whose the guy who regards himself as an expert on military affairs in 
>traveller (as in the one who has access to email)
 
I think I am one of them.
 
 
>> Do 'balance of trade' issues affect individual merchants by making it 
>> difficult to sell things on backwater worlds with few trade connections 
>> to gain Imperial money? 
 
>Backwater worlds would probably be happy they get visited by starships
>and would buy everything they could afford. Most sf literature is
>written under this assumption. These planets are not profitable for
>the big outfits but are for the little guys, the 'typical' tramp
>freighter ships that have lower overhead.
 
They sure would.  Unfortunately, lack of credit or items salable offworld
would leave them able to buy just about nothing.  Notice that there are 
several worlds in the Spinward Marches (Nakege/Jewell/Spinward Marches 
for instance) that produce no goods salable anywhere within a dozen 
parsecs.  Since it wants to buy anything brought in, it must do so with 
Imperial Credits.  Where do they come from?  In the real world, you get 
foreign currency by selling things to the foreigners, but Nakege has 
nothing anyone wants to buy.  It's a mystery to me!  Government subsidies?
Not likely, the Imperial government is too Laissez faire to do that.   
Magic??  Probably.  The GDW people don't seem to be capable of adding, 
much less doing economic (or any other) analysis of their system.
 
 
>> Do the megacorporations tie up all of the steady trade in items with
>> very high profit margins, leaving only occasional deals of this sort
>> for the little guys? 
 
>I would think this depends upon the particular items and the quantity
>involved. If a market produced only a small quantity of something it
>probably wouldn't be worth it even if it was very profitable (Piper's
>Cosmic Computer novel had a planet that produced brandy that was
>very expensive on Terra but they could only sell it to the infrequent
>ships that passed through the system and then at a very reduced rate.
>They also salvaged military equipment but again couldn't sell it for
>what it was worth.)
 
Probably they do, on major worlds, anyway.  See Andre Norton's Free 
Trader stories.
As to the Cosmic Computer analogy, consider that the average merchant 
ship  being dealt with in those stories was about 9,000,000 MT tons.
There was a ship (approx. 1,000,000 MT tons) described as too small to 
make it worthwhile to put FTL drives into.  So the average ship like that 
could buy up the entire wine harvest, store it in one corner of Hold #10, 
and then finish loading later.  The economic parallels between Piper's 
works and MT are virtually nonexistant
 
 
>> Do planets  routinely pass trade-restricting (or trade enhancing)
>> legislation?
 
>I think this would depend upon the government type. A Dictatorship
>would want to keep the populace ignorant so would enforce strong
>import conditions (i.e. keeping all the high tech goods for its own
>use).
>A more liberal govenment would want to better the conditions of its
>citizens and would be probably have less severe import conditions.
>But even in this type of system imports would be monitored so as to
>lessen the impact upon society.
 
Interestingly enough, trade restricting legislation seems to be a 
crucial part of many published adventures, most GM's arsenals, etc.
HOWEVER, any such trade would pretty much violate Imperial Law on 
interstellar trade (there are supposed to be no restrictions on such).
Odd, isn't it?
 
 
>> I think it would also be very nice to get some idea of the volume of
>> shipping available in various regions of the Imperium...
 
>I would probably say it is very similar to the conditions today.
>Heavy traffic through the main trade routes by the everyone with 
>lighter traffic to the outlying regions by small subsidiaries or
>small independents.
>Look at any major city. Planes, for instance. Every airline in the area
>has flights into the city so connections can be made. But only the
>small airlines service the smaller regional airports.
 
>To pin down actual numbers would take some time. But even in the 
>Imperium scheduled flights would be an integral component of
>communications.
 
>Since there would be frequent flights, one per day per major planet
>for the major lines might be appropriate, would necessitate cheaper
>travel costs. Travel costs, as they are now, seem to be too high.
>Which is another point I find irritating. I would think that the
>average or at least the above average citizen would want to take
>a cruise offplanet. As it is now it would take a major portion of
>a citizens income just for the ticket! 
 
Hmmm.   One Tukera Long-Liner per day landing at Efate.  So we are 
talking about 90 passengers arriving at a world of 6,000,000,000 
or so per day.  Atlanta has several hundred arriving flights per 
day, at 300+ passengers per flight.  Atlanta also has a population 
of 2,000,000 or so.  Trying to match traffic patterns would result 
in about 10,000 Tukera Liners per day arriving at Efate.    
Because of the high cost (similar to Cruise Ships, as opposed to 
airplanes), divide that by 20.  That would leave about 500 Tukera 
Liners per day at Efate.  One per 3 minutes.
It would also result in about one per 20 seconds at Terra or Muan 
Gwi.
Note that travel by starship parallels travel by merchant ship 
early in this century, rather than air travel.  Note also that when
using the city/planet analogy to compare the real world to MT, you 
should include air transport, water transport, rail transport, and
highway traffic to get a good picture of amount of trade between 
cities/planets.  The analogy is really pretty poor, anyway, so try 
using the country/planet analogy.  You still have to consider ALL
cross-border traffic, but the picture is probably more realistic.
 
 
To Rob Dean:
 
>system.  Along those lines, let me ask if anyone else thinks that Cr2000
per
>person per jump seems to be a bit excessive as a life support cost.  In my
 
The life support costs are a joke.  Everything, except possibly airline 
food, should be covered by the life support systems you pay for when
you buy the ship.
 
In response to the discussion of Potential energy in MT, the maximum 
potential energy relative to anything is equal to the energy of escape
velocity from the thing.  Therefore, the potential energy relative to 
the Sun when halfway to AlphaCent is slightly less than KE of escape
velocity from the Sun (which is about 1.905 E 11 Joules per Kilogram)
Note that the PE with respect to the Sun of someone on Terra is about
- -1.887 E 11 Joules per Kg.  The actual PE needed to get anywhere
relative to the Sun from Terra is only 886,000,000 Joules per Kg.
 
 
 
 
                               Steve Higginbotham.
 
 

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.985b

agwbbs!cynthia_higginbotham@cs.tulane.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3325
Date:     Sun, 15 Dec 91 16:12:09 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  This week in GEnie

This will be the last of the full coverage GEnie cross-loads that you will
be seeing.  As I mentioned before, I will continue to monitor things over
there, and provide the text of any official announcements from the company.
However, as you can see by the rather low quantity of traffic below, discus-
sion is dying out over there, at least until GDW says something again.

Rob Dean


 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 109       Mon Dec 09, 1991
C.BUSH3 [Clay]               at 23:00 EST
 
   I've been reviewing my letter file from Roger Myhre. Following is my
summary of his wish list for starship combat. (I've left out some specifics.)

OVERALL COMMENTS
    Lack of tactics is biggest issue with Traveller combat. Ship velocity and
heading have no bearing on what you may fire at. Armor is basically unitary;
it does not matter which facing was hit.

SCALE
    Smaller time scale for time and movement. He suggests 1 minute turns and
15 km per square/grid.

EASIER DAMAGE SYSTEM
    Easy-to-use, generic damage record form for all types of craft. If it's
impractical to use one form, then as few variations as possible, and they
should be obviously different. (Try finding destroyer #3 in a stack of
Leviathan ship forms.)

    Faster task resolution for hit and penetration. Compare offensive to
defensive factors and roll D100. (Adding a +11DM on a dozen weapon factors
seems bad.)
    One table to roll hits.
    Special tables for spinal mounts rather than rolling umpteen times.
Perhaps compare weapon factor to ship size: results would be ship-kill,
cripple, or damage. Cripple or damage would involve one die roll, and give
guidelines for allocating damage.
    Regard internal hits as criticals, where internal hits are nasty no matter
what weapon type inflicted the damage.

    Use a damage point based system, the same as personal combat does. Compute
damage factor for a ship's battery from the damage and penetration factors
given in Player's Manual so that entire system is consistent.


ANOTHER TWO CENTS FROM ME, (Clay Bush, not Roger Myhre)

    Someone in recent discussion noted that Aliens were getting dropped during
each revision of Traveller. MT made obsolete the Alien Modules, and now a
T:2000 conversion will invalidate important parts of the two MTA books.
    Aliens are very important to any si-fi game, and deserve careful attention
in GDW's marketing plans.
    I feel that the best way to handle the major non-human races is to
consolidate character generation for them into one big, bound book. Feature
character generation and role-playing aspects; cut back on history and
physiology as needed to make them fit.
    While one big rule book may be a bad idea, I feel that one _comprehensive_
treatment of the major alien races is workable. Most everyone who bought MTA1
is buying MTA2: the common interest is there. Also, this is supplementary
material.
    The one big rule book is a problem, because then you have character
generation, animal encounters, starship design, etc., all in one place, and
readers have to page through it to find anything during play. With aliens, you
aren't trying to find different sections during play.
    A release after the revised rules come out (and early comments on the
rules in) would provide important, general background for developing
campaigns. After MT, how many referees sidestepped Aslan waiting for the MTA?
I think quite a few judging from the number of HIWGers who put off projects
waiting for MTA1 or MTA2.
    Drop the "bomb" and then referees will feel free to run with the ball. Any
lack of written adventures in the product is made up in the number of referee-
generated adventures it supports.

    (Personally, I blame Americans' obsession with not making mistakes.
Perfectionism and fear of mistakes cripples many people's initiative, but
encouragement to "wing it" doesn't help many. It's too close to the problem.
    (Since supplements are meant to support, the ones of most use to referees
should receive the highest priority. Aliens is the first place to look at
supplements in any si-fi system.)
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 111       Sun Dec 15, 1991
K.BRENNAN2 [Kevin]           at 13:46 EST
 
   While I doubt that this will make much difference, I'd  like to point out
that the MT/2300 task system works  perfectly well with the T2K2 skill levels -
it's been used  in the local Twilight campaign ever since the new edition  was
released. (And note to Lester - an automatic success  rule could be added,
though I personally don't feel it to be needed, since it only comes up on
Formidable or Impossible  tasks. I won't insult your intelligence by pointing
out that the 2300 version uses a d10, so bell curves are not  necessary ;->).
Actually, I think it works much better than  the "real" T2K2 task system, and
intend to do this unless drastic revisions are made.

   I agree with Clay that a _NeoTraveller Alien_ book would  be a good idea,
and somerules for generating alien characters (for everyone with the old
background) should be  in the basic book. 

   While I'm here, I'd like to point out once again that interstellar anarchy
(Twilight: 2000 with spaceships) is of  absolutely no interest to me. I don't
know yet if that's  what GDW is aiming for, but it certainly sounds like it so
 far. My campaigns require interstellar goverments  (preferably large ones,
who don't always get along but are  not at war) to be playable, since they are
based on  intrigue, with very little violence.

   In Traveller, it's hard to do that without organization  on an interstellar
scale, because the characters are less  likely to get involved in local
intrigues and find it too  easy to escape their enemies. If the factions
around Lucan's Imperium remained intact, I'll find it a lot easier to  accept
the revised universe. (Frankly, my main concern with  the rules change is how
much stuff I have to throw out. It's  the setting that makes or breaks a game
for me).

   I generally agree with Bryan Borich's "five points",  though I don't really
expect to see 1 or 5.

   Foreshadowing Dept. (TNS, Challenge #47): "An anonymous  source close to
Emperor Lucan said that the recent `super- weapons speech' does relate to
these naval successes. `The emperor would not have put his technical staff on
the spot unless he knew that real breakthroughs were being made. What our
scientists have accomplished is, in a word, startling.  The emperor expects a
complete cessation of hostilities as  soon as his ultimatum is delivered to
the leaders of the  various rebel factions'." Hmmm...
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3326
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 91 00:57:00 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: a quick note on character generation

DON'T forward this to GEnie, Carl: I sent a copy to Rob, and then realized
that the TML might want to see it..... [Metlay, I nuked GENIE from the
subject line.  That's the flag that Carl looks for -- James]

metlay
- ----------------------

One other small matter that I hope will be addressed by the new character
generation system in TNE: multiple career changes as a legal part of the
rules. The average person in our society changes careers over twenty
times in his or her life; in Traveller you're not allowed to do it at all,
unless you're a Vargr. You're a Navy man when you're 18, and the only way
you can try something different when you're 26 is to muster out and 
become an adventurer, with a big set of gaps in your skill lists as compared
to the 42-year-olds out there. My personal bias would be to state that a
person can only serve in one MILITARY establishment in their career, and
would then need to move to paramilitary or civilian organizations. This
would lead to careers like the following:

"Well, I was a bomber pilot in the War-- got a bunch of decorations. Then
I decided to give civilian life a try, so I used my piloting experience
to hire on as a commercial pilot hauling passengers and cargo. After some
years of that, it got kind of old, so I decided to give writing a try.
And now I make a living doing writing and mass media production, with my
skill base as a means of qualifying me as a technical consultant."

Sound like the typical sort of random hashing around that you'd expect 
from an easily-bored Vargr? Well, surprise surprise: as anyone who
wears plastic ears to conventions could tell you, that was Gene Roddenberry's
resume at any point in the last two decades of his life. Think about it.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3327
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: potential energy
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 91 10:33:21 GMT

This was originally private email, but I have no objection to letting the
TML in on it, so I'll reply here.

gsw@whservd.att.COM writes:
> 
> : From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> : Subject: Re: potential energy in the Traveller (and other) universe
> : 
> : What is the equation relating potential energy to distance, once you allow
> : for the fact that gravitational attraction is itself dependent on distance?
> : Specifically, does your potential energy increase or decrease as your
> : distance from the attracting body increases?
> 
> I don't remember the formula either.

So do any TML physics experts want to tell us?

>					I think that there is a certain
> amount of energy which is enough to overcome ALL of the gravitational
> potential energy of the Earth.  If you assume that energy is kinetic
> energy, then you can divide out mass from the equations and get an
> escape velocity.

I believe the escape velocity is the velocity you need to have initially,
so that gravitational deceleration will not prevent you from getting to
an infinite distance, where the gravitational force of the Earth upon
your ship will be zero.  Of course, other factors will probably prevent you
getting to an infinite distance from Earth in reality.

>		    I would say that for a jump drive to land you 1/2
> way between Sol and Alpha Centauri, it would have to expend more than
> enough energy to bring the ship to escape velocity.

Well, it will have to expend some energy in order to make up for the
potential energy it will gain due to its increased distance from Sol.
But it will get some of that back because it loses some potential energy
due to the reduced distance from Alpha Centauri.  There's also the matter
of what the ship's potential energy due to its distance from Regina will
do.

> I was thinking along the lines of Larry Niven style jump drives, I guess.
> In that case, jumps are made between stars, not into open space.

This messes up the trick of a ship with a jump-1 drive but enough fuel for
two jumps, which executes one jump-1 into empty space and then a second
jump-1 to the destination, thus making a 2 parsec journey possible.

> : > True, but I don't think Traveller was THAT broken.  Some of the
> : > stats might have to be altered or given further constraints.
> 
> OK, so maybe altering the stats won't be enough.  But Jump-4 and
> Maneuver-3 should still be understandable under the new system.

Yes, but the snag is that a ship capable of Manoeuvre-3 under the old
system will either no longer be capable of it (because the drives are
now bigger), or be capable of it but now have some new cargo space
(because the drives are now smaller).

I wonder if they will use the same sort of trick they did when they
introduced High Guard, whose calculations for drive size and fuel
consumption were different from those in Book 2 - the old drives are
standardised models, suitable for use on small ships if it is an
advantage to do so.

> Also, they should have at least the same range of weapons and
> equipment.  If I have characters aboard a ship in the old system,
> I want to be ABLE to convert to the new system.  And I don't want
> to have to give up my repulsor bay because these are not included
> in the new rules.

No, but you may have to give up your repulsor bay because the new
rules say it uses more power than the old rules, and your ship can't
provide the required power.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3328
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: potential energy
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 91 11:12:49 GMT

"C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA> writes:
> 
> The physics convention is that potential energy is NEGATIVE, so that it 
> increases (gets less negative) as you increase the separation. At 
> infinite separation, the PE rises to zero. (A common definition is that 
> PE represents how much energy has to be added to bring two objects to 
> infinite separation.

Ah, this makes things a little easier.  In effect, if you are a long way
from something, your potential energy due to its gravity is approximately
zero; if you're sitting on top of it, your potential energy is large and
negative - you have to expend a lot of energy to get away.  If you're at
distance 0, you're in big trouble, but that's really only possible if the
something that you're trying to get away from has radius 0, i.e. it is
probably a black hole.

>				     On the other hand, if you were to 
> jump from a distance r from Sol to a distance r from AC, then the net
> cost of the jump is
> 
> 	G m M(AC)/r - G m M(Sol)/r = G m [M(AC)-M(Sol)]/r.
> 
> A first approximation calls M(Sol) about the same as M(AC), so the net
> cost of the jump is ~= 0, plus the drive energy to make a jump of twice 
> the distance.

Why twice the distance?  (I assume that in this sentence, "distance" means
"distance from Sol to Alpha Centauri".)  If the energy require to make a
jump of this distance is E, then you're saying you need to expend 2*E.

>		On the other hand, GmM/r is the escape energy of Sol, 
> which is the kinetic energy required to produce a velocity of ~30 km/s.
> For a ship weighing say, 1 T, that's 4.5e11 J, or 450 000 MJ. Not to
> be sneezed at.

A ship accelerating at 1-G will achieve that velocity in less than an hour,
using just its manoeuvre drive.  (To get to 30000 m/s using an acceleration
of 9.8 m/s^2 will take 3061 seconds, i.e. 51 minutes.)  Maybe not to be
sneezed at, but that's the sort of figure that all spacecraft play with
routinely - that's why you don't want to collide with anything!

So the ship expends its 4.5e11 J, and get into jump space.  One week later,
it emerges from jump space near Alpha Centauri, and gets 4.5e11J back -
what happens to this energy?  Presumably it gains this energy as it emerges
from jump space, and the energy ends up back in the ship's jump capacitors.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3329
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 91 13:41 -0400
From: "Dr. Michael Hale" <MHALE@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: Dark Nebula rules

In my last move, I managed to lose my copy of the rules to Dark Nebula.
If anyone on the list has a copy (or knows where to obtain same), I would
like to hear from you.

Thanks.
Mike

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3330
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 19:54 EST
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re:  (3300) Re: General Traveller Questions

>Rob Miracle writes:
>>>Question 14
>>>
>>>I tried to make a scout vessel (as the one from the encyclopedia) and
>>>absolutly nothing was acurate . As it turned out the power listed for vessels
>>>in the encyclopedia were on average 3 times the power I worked out for them
>>
>>That is another general complaint of the MT rules. One of the things that bugs
>>me about the ship generation is that you can't build a decent starship below
>>TL14.
>
>Well, it depends on your definition of decent.  Personally, I think of 13 as
>the bottom end of 'what's militarily useful', given the present Imperial
>situation, and TL11 as the bottom end of 'what's commerically useful'.
>
>What did you mean?

Rob,
  What I ment was that based on the trade and commerce rules and the cost of a
ship vs the available cargo/passenger space, you cant build a usable ship.

Look at the Vehicals in the MT Imperial Encyolpedia:

Air/Raft:     TL 15
GCarrier:     TL 15
Speeder:      TL 15
All Ship's Boats: TL 15
All Star Ship's:  TL 15  (Including a Type S scout and a Type A free trader)

If it requires TL 15 to build a Free Trader to have that little passenger space
and cargo space, there is no way to afford the payments if it is built at a
lower TL.  Try building a Free Trader at TL 12.

The only space vehicals below TL 15 in the IG are the Gazelle Close Escort and
its attached gig.  They are TL 14.

Rob (Miracle)


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Thu Dec 19 11:16:26 1991
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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #276: Msgs 3331-3348
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 21:00:26 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Dec 18 21:00:22 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #276: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3331  16-Dec-91 surman@zulu.lgs.l Re: (3324) Random responses << A few response
3332  16-Dec-91 bart@cs.uoregon.e Fusion Neutrons (Re: TML biweekly: Msg 3319 V
3333  14-Dec-91 woodsb@ecn.purdue It's been a lot of fun, but... << I have some
3334  17-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: potential energy << Adrian Hurt <adrian@c
3335  17-Dec-91 givler@bermuda.ra Re: (3326) a quick note on character generati
3336  17-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: spaceship stats << Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs
3337  17-Dec-91 James T Perkins   Comment on Classic Traveller << A funny thoug
3338  17-Dec-91 gt4534b@prism.gat Re: fusion reactions << > By the way, where d
3339  17-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Has anyone seen Scott Kellogg? << This sounds
3340  17-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Re: Has anyone seen Scott Kellogg? << Okay, N
3341  17-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Cancel that panic attack << Scott's turned up
3342  18-Dec-91 "C. Roald"        Re: grav potential << >> A first approximatio
3343  18-Dec-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Travel Report from the Lost Sheep << Geez! Yo
3344  18-Dec-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << Subject: Ships in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace! ===
3345  18-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse GDW's sense of proportion << > = Michael A. S
3346  18-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Changing careers << >Mike Metlay writes: > >O
3347  18-Dec-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: potential energy << Jerry Williams (gsw@w
3348  18-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Discomfort Rule for Seats and Staterooms << S

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3331
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 91 12:00:10 CST
From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: Re: (3324) Random responses

A few responses to Steve Higginbotham (TML msg 3324):

>Since it wants to buy anything brought in, it must do so with 
>Imperial Credits.  Where do they come from?  In the real world, you get 
>nothing anyone wants to buy.  It's a mystery to me!  Government subsidies?
>Not likely, the Imperial government is too Laissez faire to do that.   
>Magic??  Probably.  The GDW people don't seem to be capable of adding, 
>much less doing economic (or any other) analysis of their system.

Can't agree with you more. Especially the last sentence. Therefore,
has anyone seen a commercial game/publication that has a decent
economic system?

>As to the Cosmic Computer analogy, consider that the average merchant 
>There was a ship (approx. 1,000,000 MT tons) described as too small to 
>make it worthwhile to put FTL drives into.  So the average ship like that 
>could buy up the entire wine harvest, store it in one corner of Hold #10, 
>and then finish loading later.  The economic parallels between Piper's 
>works and MT are virtually nonexistant

Two things jump at me here. In the Trav/MegaTrav universe either the 
ships are too small or the planets don't produce as much as in Piper's
books. I would assume that planetary production is relatively similar
in both universes therefore it leaves ship size. Why aren't there big
freighter's in Trav/MTrav? It would seem to be a very economical way
to ship goods. As it stands now, speed wouldn't be affected much because
most ships travel at jump 1 or 2 anyway. Or it could be that since GDW
doesn't understand economics planets don't produce much therefore small
ships are adequate.

As another point. To me there is no way any ship no matter how big
(as in 9,000,000 MT tons) could store the harvest of a planet. Unless
that planet had only a small colony of a few thousand people or so.
The harvest would be so large that it would take several ships of that
size to move it. Of course that is assuming that a significant portion
of the harvest is for export. Otherwise you wouldn't get anyone to come
if the harvest isn't going to make them a profit. 

>Hmmm.   One Tukera Long-Liner per day landing at Efate.  So we are 
>talking about 90 passengers arriving at a world of 6,000,000,000 
>or so per day.  Atlanta has several hundred arriving flights per 
>day, at 300+ passengers per flight.  Atlanta also has a population 
>of 2,000,000 or so.  Trying to match traffic patterns would result 
>in about 10,000 Tukera Liners per day arriving at Efate.    
>Because of the high cost (similar to Cruise Ships, as opposed to 
>airplanes), divide that by 20.  That would leave about 500 Tukera 
>Liners per day at Efate.  One per 3 minutes.
>It would also result in about one per 20 seconds at Terra or Muan 
>Gwi.

This is what I wrote earlier about flights:
	>Since there would be frequent flights, one per day per major
	>planet for the major lines might be appropriate,...
I'm not sure how you managed to build that up to 500 per day when I
already stated that 1 per day per major line would be appropriate.
Granted that is probably too small but that was referring to Rob Dean's
original question on trying to get a handle on traffic.

>Note that travel by starship parallels travel by merchant ship 
>early in this century, rather than air travel.  Note also that when
>using the city/planet analogy to compare the real world to MT, you 
>should include air transport, water transport, rail transport, and
>highway traffic to get a good picture of amount of trade between 
>cities/planets.  The analogy is really pretty poor, anyway, so try 
>sing the country/planet analogy.  You still have to consider ALL
>cross-border traffic, but the picture is probably more realistic.

I obviously didn't put enough qualifiers in my original statement.
Of course in order to get a more realistic picture all forms of
transport need to be included. I was using airports to illustrate
the size of the companies and the aircraft  involved not what they 
carried. I don't know of anyone that ships bulk goods by air! So that
would be a pretty poor example.

I agree that sea travel is the best form of transportation to use when
making comparisons or using as a model. It includes most of the 
necessary components used when making calculations; time, life support,
cargo types, etc.

Mike Surman


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3332
Subject: Fusion Neutrons (Re: TML biweekly: Msg 3319 V22#7)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 91 09:34:57 -0800
From: bart@cs.uoregon.edu


> Of course, that means that if (hopefully when) the GDW
> folks decide to make the plant output realistic, they should
> subtract the energy needed to create the neutrons from the
> energy output of the power plant.
....
> Also, a
> plant fusing only heavy hydrogen would have a higher energy
> yield than one fusing normal hydrogen (I don't know what the
> overall difference is -- I don't have the numbers handy).


Although I admittedly don't have the numbers in front of me
either, as I recall the energy required to create a neutron is
pretty negligible compared to the energy gained in 4P + 4e ->
He4 .  Be careful not to confuse the mass defect, which
represents the total energy gain of a nuclear reaction, with
the barrier potential, which represents how difficult it is to
start a fusion reaction (sort of).  The latter number really has
little to do with the former, and the former number is the
interesting one for power output.


> Also, fusion power plants when first introduced would likely
> not have this ability, and would have to use heavy hydrogen as
> I suggested.


My guess based on current results is that heavy hydrogen fusion
for power production is TL9.  I would guess at least TL10 and
probably TL11 for light hydrogen fusion.


> By the way, where does the electron come from?  I was under the
> impression that the Sun, at least the part that is fusing, is
> very positively ionic.  If this is so, then where are the
> electrons coming from?


Practically can't be!  Remember the huge difference between the
universal electric constant C (per particle charge) and the
universal gravitational constant G (per particle mass)...  What
this means is that any object which is even slightly charge
unbalanced is blown apart by the repulsive force of its own
electric charge!


					Bart Massey
					bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3333
From: woodsb@ecn.purdue.edu (Brent L. Woods)
Subject: It's been a lot of fun, but...
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 91 1:11:33 EST


     I have some bad news to relate.  My accounts here at Purdue will
be going away soon, so I have to ask you to remove me from the list.
With luck, I may get other email access, so I may be back.  In any case,
I'm unhappy to be leaving, but it's unavoidable.  I've enjoyed the
postings on the list, and I'll miss the people on it.

     'Bye; it's been a lot of fun.

     James, if you think it appropriate, feel free to post the above
to the list, as a goodbye of sorts.  I leave it to your judgment.


- --
     Brent Woods

USNAIL:  4419 Myrtle Grove Dr.  /  Indianapolis, IN  46236
PHONE:  +1 (317) 895-8690 (voice)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3334
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 10:37 EST
Subject: Re: potential energy

Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:
> 
> >		On the other hand, GmM/r is the escape energy of Sol, 
> > which is the kinetic energy required to produce a velocity of ~30 km/s.
> > For a ship weighing say, 1 T, that's 4.5e11 J, or 450 000 MJ. Not to
> > be sneezed at.
> 
> A ship accelerating at 1-G will achieve that velocity in less than an hour,
> using just its manoeuvre drive.  (To get to 30000 m/s using an acceleration
> of 9.8 m/s^2 will take 3061 seconds, i.e. 51 minutes.)  Maybe not to be
> sneezed at, but that's the sort of figure that all spacecraft play with
> routinely - that's why you don't want to collide with anything!

Perhaps that is one answer -- require all ships entering jumpspace to
have enough kinetic energy (speed) to escape from the local star's
gravity well.  Then, a ship jumping from Sol to empty space would end
up with (almost) no kinetic energy after the jump, then after jumping
to Alpha Centauri it would gain as much kinetic energy as potential
energy that it lost.

Of course, there will have to be extra energy expended for the jump
itself.  Probably that energy would be expended as lost heat energy
or something.

> So the ship expends its 4.5e11 J, and get into jump space.  One week later,
> it emerges from jump space near Alpha Centauri, and gets 4.5e11J back -
> what happens to this energy?  Presumably it gains this energy as it emerges
> from jump space, and the energy ends up back in the ship's jump capacitors.

As I mentioned, the energy could just as easily be transferred into
kinetic energy.  Or it could go into the jump capacitors.  As long
as you aren't getting free energy from the jump, I don't mind how
it is modelled.

Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3335
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 10:25:21 EDT
From: givler@bermuda.rain.COM (Greg Givler)
Subject: Re: (3326) a quick note on character generation

Gee, Mike that is one of the things that I wanted to work on in TDR.
When I played Traveller regularly, the GM that I played with used an
old White Dwarf article that allowed a character to change careers.
As you got older and depending on your last career choice your
choices got less and less. 

This has lead me to have characters that spent times as a Bounty
Hunter and a Rogue, some folks may say that is the same thing. 

The system used your age and then gave you choices to make and
the rolls required for entry. There were die modifiers depending on
your previous experience. Some things were automatic. If you had a
social standing of >10 you could always join the Nobles. Rogues was
also always a possiblity, you can always turn to a life of crime. :-)
My GM used Other as skills that you learned in prison life, when
being a Rogue was not entirely successful. The number of terms
determined by your sentence. Isn't that what reabilitation is about?

:unless you're a Vargr. You're a Navy man when you're 18, and the only way
:you can try something different when you're 26 is to muster out and 
:become an adventurer, with a big set of gaps in your skill lists as compared
:to the 42-year-olds out there. My personal bias would be to state that a
:person can only serve in one MILITARY establishment in their career, and

I disagree slightly. It is possible today to leave say the Air Force
and then enlist in the Army. It is unusual, but not unheard of. 

:would then need to move to paramilitary or civilian organizations. This
:would lead to careers like the following:
:
:"Well, I was a bomber pilot in the War-- got a bunch of decorations. Then
:I decided to give civilian life a try, so I used my piloting experience
:to hire on as a commercial pilot hauling passengers and cargo. After some
:years of that, it got kind of old, so I decided to give writing a try.
:And now I make a living doing writing and mass media production, with my
:skill base as a means of qualifying me as a technical consultant."
:
:Sound like the typical sort of random hashing around that you'd expect 
:from an easily-bored Vargr? Well, surprise surprise: as anyone who
:wears plastic ears to conventions could tell you, that was Gene Roddenberry's
:resume at any point in the last two decades of his life. Think about it.
:

Well let's see, I went to college for Music Education. Dropped out
after realizing that I didn't want to teach. Then attended and
graduated Piano Tuning and Repair School. Was self-employed for 5
years. Got married and found out that Piano Tuning would not pay the
bills alone. Got a part-time job as a School Bus Driver, and tuned
pianos. Then landed a job as a Housekeeper, (read Janitor) at the
local VA. Then quit that job to enter Customer Support at a computer
company. After two years in Customer Support, I got a job in the
Product Assurance Dept. So here I am. Seems reasonable to me. I am
teaching myself how to program in C. So maybe my next step will be as
a programmer somewhere.

:metlay
:

Greg


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3336
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 11:15 EST
Subject: Re: spaceship stats

Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:

> > I was thinking along the lines of Larry Niven style jump drives, I guess.
> > In that case, jumps are made between stars, not into open space.
> 
> This messes up the trick of a ship with a jump-1 drive but enough fuel for
> two jumps, which executes one jump-1 into empty space and then a second
> jump-1 to the destination, thus making a 2 parsec journey possible.

Yes, but it also makes higher jump number ships more attractive.

> > OK, so maybe altering the stats won't be enough.  But Jump-4 and
> > Maneuver-3 should still be understandable under the new system.
> 
> Yes, but the snag is that a ship capable of Manoeuvre-3 under the old
> system will either no longer be capable of it (because the drives are
> now bigger), or be capable of it but now have some new cargo space
> (because the drives are now smaller).

> > Also, they should have at least the same range of weapons and
> > equipment.  If I have characters aboard a ship in the old system,
> > I want to be ABLE to convert to the new system.  And I don't want
> > to have to give up my repulsor bay because these are not included
> > in the new rules.
> 
> No, but you may have to give up your repulsor bay because the new
> rules say it uses more power than the old rules, and your ship can't
> provide the required power.

OK, so maybe it will be impossible to design the 1000 ton merchant
ship that you are carrying over from MT.  But you COULD put the
same equipment on board a 2000 ton ship now.  Big deal.  When you
do the conversion, change the ship tonnage.  Some of us don't use
ship's statistics in normal play.  Also, if it is difficult to
build large ships with high maneuver ratings under the new rules,
then I would just drop the maneuver rating a notch or so.  I'm
sure that I'd eventually get around to changing the ships to the
new rules.  I just don't want the new rules to replace jump drives
with warp drives and missiles with photon torpedoes or other such
drastic changes which would make conversion impossible.

Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3337
Subject: Comment on Classic Traveller
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 11:25:19 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


A funny thought.  On my X-windows display, the configured icon image for
my shell windows is an Imperial starburst, not a shattered sun ala
MegaTraveller.  I created both icon images, but the one I unconciously
chose is the Classic one.  I wonder if I was trying to tell myself
something when I selected it a couple years ago.

James

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3338
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 15:03:48 -0500
From: gt4534b@prism.gatech.edu (JARRIO,MARTIN MICHAEL)
Subject: Re: fusion reactions

> By the way, where does the electron come from?  I was under the
> impression that the Sun, at least the part that is fusing, is
> very positively ionic.  If this is so, then where are the
> electrons coming from?  Is there another form of mass decay
> taking place?  Or is this simply one of the means by which the
> Sun regulates its rate of fusion?  Or am I simply misinformed?

> Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com)

  Don't forget that there are *two* decay routes which can change a proton
into a neutron: beta absorption (proton plus electron -> neutron plus
neutrino) and inverse-beta decay (proton -> neutron plus positron plus
neutrino); I believe the latter is much more common, because the proton is
not at all dependent on "finding" an appropriate electron which allows the
decay. Also, being a nuclear physicist, I should point out that a free
proton will not decay to a neutron in any case (not energetically favor-
able). However, in a nucleus containing a large number of protons (relative
to the number of neutrons) *will* undergo such a decay.
  So, look at a collapsing interstellar gas cloud composed entirely of
hydrogen-1. As it collapses, grav potential energy becomes kinetic energy--
the gas heats up. Eventually, the gas reaches a temperature (or energy)
high enough to let the protons (which make up the hydrogen-1 nuclei)
overcome their electrostatic repulsion. Somewhere in the cloud, two
protons come close enough to experience the strong nuclear force. This is not
sufficient, however; the di-proton is energetically unfavorable and will soon
fall apart. But, before they fall apart, it is possible for the weak nuclear
force to cause an inverse-beta dacey of one of the protons--bingo! We have a
deuteron. At this point things get more complex, but we see the basic 
procedure:

  p + p + 0.5 MeV  -->  He-2*  -->  d
   \ /      |             |         |
    |       |             |         +--> deuteron
    |       |             +------------> excited di-proton (unstable)
    |       +--------------------------> coulomb barrier (rough calc.)
    +----------------------------------> two hydrogen nuclei (protons)
 
  The number 0.5 MeV may be dead wrong; I used a guess based on about
thirty seconds worth of thought.


JARRIO,MARTIN MICHAEL            |  Everyone's out to get me, and frankly,
Demented Physicist               |    its starting to make me paraniod. 
Georgia Institute of Technology  |
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4534b
Internet: gt4534b@prism.gatech.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3339
Date:     Tue, 17 Dec 91 15:39:05 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Has anyone seen Scott Kellogg?

This sounds a trifle alarmist, but has anyone seen Scott Kellogg?  He was 
supposed to stop off at my house yesterday on his way home for Christmas,
and he hasn't been found.  His parents are panicking, and called me to see
if I'd seen him, which I hadn't.  Hopefully this will all be resolved before
long...

Rob Dean



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3340
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 19:53:11 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Re:  Has anyone seen Scott Kellogg?

Okay, NOBODY PANIC! Last I heard from him he was saying goodbye and 
on his way home, but if I hear anything I need to be able to reach 
someone. Rob, please email me your phone number and that of Scott's
family.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3341
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 23:49:42 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Cancel that panic attack

Scott's turned up OK, folks. Ignore the previous message, assuming James
didn't pull it in time.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3342
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 02:09 -0400
From: "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: Re: grav potential

>> A first approximation calls M(Sol) about the same as M(AC), so the net
>> cost of the jump is ~= 0, plus the drive energy to make a jump of twice 
>> the distance.
>
>Why twice the distance?  (I assume that in this sentence, "distance" means
>"distance from Sol to Alpha Centauri".)  If the energy require to make a
>jump of this distance is E, then you're saying you need to expend 2*E.

I meant twice the distance of the hypothetical jump to the midpoint 
between Sol and AC.

>>		On the other hand, GmM/r is the escape energy of Sol, 
>> which is the kinetic energy required to produce a velocity of ~30 km/s.
>> For a ship weighing say, 1 T, that's 4.5e11 J, or 450 000 MJ. Not to
>> be sneezed at.
>
>A ship accelerating at 1-G will achieve that velocity in less than an hour,
>using just its manoeuvre drive.  (To get to 30000 m/s using an acceleration
>of 9.8 m/s^2 will take 3061 seconds, i.e. 51 minutes.)  Maybe not to be

You realise what you just said?  A spacecraft with a 1-G maneuver drive
can produce 4.5e11 J in 3000 s, for an average power output of 150 MW.
Constant-acceleration drives are scary.

>So the ship expends its 4.5e11 J, and get into jump space.  One week later,
>it emerges from jump space near Alpha Centauri, and gets 4.5e11J back -
>what happens to this energy?  Presumably it gains this energy as it emerges
>from jump space, and the energy ends up back in the ship's jump capacitors.

Depending on how jumpspace is supposed to work, I shouldn't think the 
hundred billion joules of GPE would have to be 'spent'.  The only 
relevent number ought to be the difference in initial and final 
energies.  If the energy did have to come from somewhere, it would be
a very blatant violation of the 2nd law of Thermodynamics to get it back 
in the capacitors. More plausible would be to get it as kinetic energy,
but physical reality would almost certainly produce it as heat. Which
would vapourise the ship, very quickly.

   roald.

- --
Scientific Progress goes 'BOINK'?	-- Hobbes

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3343
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1991 10:49 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Travel Report from the Lost Sheep

Geez!

You miss one little check point and everybody goes Nine O'Clock Bannanas!
Well, this is just to inform you all that I am alive and well.  The KGB has
Not, repeat NOT caught up with me, though I am leading them a merry chase!

Well, I intercepted the plans in the diplomatic pouch ok, but somebody seems
to have found out about my dead drop.  When I went to drop off the package,
there was a hit squad watching.  Since then I have been on the run in
various stolen vehicles of different types and performances.  (Bertil, you
were right about the Viggin's fuel problems, thank god for drop tanks!)
I will make a more detailed report at the rendezvous site on Barnard's Star
on or about January 3.

Scott S. Kellogg
Number 6

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3344
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 12:27:44 EST
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

Subject: Ships in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!
===============================================================================
Jerry Williams Notes:
[]It's been a while, but I once used this equation to
[]determine how much fuel would be required for a
[]fusion plant to accelerate a ship to 0.1c.  Assuming
[]all deuterium, I think that 1/2 of the ship needed
[]to be fuel.  That drops down to about 4% (I think) of
[]the ship if antimatter is used (assuming total energy
[]conversion -- I don't know what the real output of an
[]antimatter reactor would be).

Perhaps T:TNE should draw upon the Niven "Known Space/Kzin Wars" idea of
ships.

In "Man/Kzin Wars" (post hyperdrive) Ships are equipped with a contra-gravity
drive as well as the hyperdrive.  Ships have a maneuver reserve in
deltaV (i.e. in the thrid book, one character noted that Kzin standard warships
have a 1.5c DeltaV reserve for maneuvering.

However, no fuel use was mentioned for this reserve (but I presume it was
something low).

===============================================================================
When I recently ran Traveller, I modified my system generation program to
figure Tech Levels differently.  My system assumed a "General TL" and
worked down based on Starport.  For the Imperium, GTL was 15, 16 in the core,
the Zhodani had a GTL of 14, Sword Worlds has 12, etc.

A Starports reduced GTL by 1d2-1 (i.e. 0-1), B-starports reduce it by 1d3-1
(0-2), C ports by 1d4 (1-4), D by 1d4+1 (2-5) and  E by 1d6+2 (3-8). X ports
were a special case. (straight 1d6-1 or soemthing).

In the case of fringe areas (spinward marches, etc) the variance was increased
by 1 (thus, in the marches, a B-starport rolls 1d4-1, not 1d3-1).  In the
core variance is reduced by 1 (in the capital sector, B-starports roll 1d2-1).

Tight collectives (Darrian, Sword Worlds) reduce variance by 1 as well.
Very tight collectives (small, 5-world federations) reduce variance by 2
(never below 1d2).

Within the imperium and Vargr areas, roll 2d6: a 12 indicates +1 TL.

This system gets a littl sticky when rolling random systems outside any normal
collective body, but I think it handles the idea of technology following the
heavy-traffic planets better.
===============================================================================
Clay Bush Requests:
[]Someone in recent discussion noted that Aliens were getting dropped during
[]each revision of Traveller. MT made obsolete the Alien Modules, and now a
[]T:2000 conversion will invalidate important parts of the two MTA books.
[]Aliens are very important to any si-fi game, and deserve careful attention
[]in GDW's marketing plans.

Yes, Aliens should have a part in T3.  It wouldn't be traveller without the
Doggies :)

===============================================================================
Burton Choinski                                       Phoenix Technologies, LTD
"All opinions are mine, not Phoenix's"                            Cambridge, MA
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3345
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: GDW's sense of proportion
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 20:54:07 MET

>   = Michael A. Surman
>>  = Steve Higginbotham (TML msg 3324):

>>Since it wants to buy anything brought in, it must do so with
>>Imperial Credits.  Where do they come from?  In the real world, you get
>>nothing anyone wants to buy.  It's a mystery to me!  Government subsidies?
>>Not likely, the Imperial government is too Laissez faire to do that.
>>Magic??  Probably.  The GDW people don't seem to be capable of adding,
>>much less doing economic (or any other) analysis of their system.
>
> Can't agree with you more. Especially the last sentence. Therefore,
> has anyone seen a commercial game/publication that has a decent
> economic system?

I started to work on one a few years ago, but put it aside as too big a job.
I did analyse the trade tonnage in a couple of subsectors and got unmanagably
huge numbers. Glisten subsector (not one of the high-population ones at all)
wound up with 44.000 ships of an average tonnage of a 1000. I based this on
the naval budgets of Trillion Credit Squadron as showing a bare minimum. (I
assumed that in order to pay the few planets who actually built these ships,
the rest of the planets had to deliver goods to other planets (Glisten will
hardly be satisfied with an IOU for umpteen billion akian guilders unless
they can buy something for those guilders AND have it delivered)). The one BIG
assumption I made was that every ton of military ship "represented" two tons
of commercial ship (I got that number out of a fantasy RPG. Does anybody know
what the numbers are for real-life nations? That is, what is the proportions
between America or Britain' or France's naval and trade fleet?)

The fix I came up with consisted of dividing trade ships in two categories:
bulk and luxury. Bulk carriers are huge ships ranging from 10.000 T for the
very smallest to 1-200.000 T on the average to millions of tons for the
largest. They are engaged in long-term haulage of food and rew materials
between the worlds. They have regular routes that don't change from one year
to another (You don't build a super- or hyper-carrier unless you have a
guaranteed employment for it for the next several decades). Luxury trade is
evrything else. Everything we've seen in any Traveller and Megatraveller
publication to date, up to and including the 5000 T Akerut freighters from
"The Traveller Adventure".

Bulk trade is boring (which is why we've never heard of it before :-). It is
also 99.9% of all trade. I originally choose 99% as the number and then
checked with the trade of Aramis subsector. In "The Traveller Adventure" we
get a considerable amount of information about the companies trading there. I
made a few interpolations and a couple of rather big (but not unreasonable)
assumptions and came up with a number that was almost exactly the one I got by
calculation, except it was off by a factor 10. So 99.9% is what I use now.

>>As to the Cosmic Computer analogy, consider that the average merchant
>>There was a ship (approx. 1,000,000 MT tons) described as too small to
>>make it worthwhile to put FTL drives into.  So the average ship like that
>>could buy up the entire wine harvest, store it in one corner of Hold #10,
>>and then finish loading later.  The economic parallels between Piper's
>>works and MT are virtually nonexistant
>
> Two things jump at me here. In the Trav/MegaTrav universe either the
> ships are too small or the planets don't produce as much as in Piper's
> books. I would assume that planetary production is relatively similar
> in both universes therefore it leaves ship size. Why aren't there big
> freighter's in Trav/MTrav? It would seem to be a very economical way
> to ship goods.

Yes, if you use them all the time. Imagine the capital loss (I think that's
what I mean) of a 1.000.000 T ship standing idle. That's why I feel justified
in making bulk trade tightly bound to loooong-term employment.


>               As it stands now, speed wouldn't be affected much because
> most ships travel at jump 1 or 2 anyway.

Another advantage of long-term haulage is that you know in advance what size
jump you're going to need. Whereas I consider Free Traders with jump-1 quite
silly. (The ability to bypass an unprofitable or even dangerous star-system
is IMO indispensable for a roving trader. Forget about trading mains. A planet
that dosen't buy or sell anything is a barrier to jump-1 ships in itself.)

>                                           Or it could be that since GDW
> doesn't understand economics planets don't produce much therefore small
> ships are adequate.

It was amazing the way naval ship sizes changed when GDW produced Trillion
Credit Squadron. In "Twilight's Peak" the squadron that enforces the Algine
interdict consists of a Kinunir class "cruiser" and a couple of Gazelle
class escorts. In "Fighting Ships" the squadron that enforces the interdict
of Andory consists of two Tigress class battleships! Not to mention the way
a Kinunir before TCS was a mighty 1200 T cruiser and afterwards was a puny
1200 T "cruiser". Nowadays cruisers are spinal-mount carrying ships of between
20 and 75.000 T and are produced by the hundreds, but back then a Kinunir was
a ship to be reckoned with and had been produced by the dozen. It is a pity
that GDW didn't stop for a moment and think about the consequences of
upscaling the naval ships.

I wonder how the 400 T corsairs make out nowadays. They used to be a threat,
at least in the 1000 year old authentic frontier sector Spinward Marches. It
sure is lucky for us referees that the Imperium never decided to build just
one less battleship and place a squadron of Gazelles in every star system,
empty or not, thus ending piracy forever...

BTW. I've also decided to reduce the naval budget of high-population worlds.
I haven't worked out the details, but the main idea is to introduce an
_optimum_ population for each star-system. Once you exceed that, the extra
people won't generate extra naval revenue (that is, any increase in
productivity from having more people producing is swallowed up in having
still more people not producing, but still requiring support). After all,
the proportion of telephone sanitizers and bureaucrats are higher in a
society of millions than a society of thousands. So a system with an optimum
population of 1.2 billion and an actual population of 4 billion would have
it's naval budget based on 1.2 billion and not 4. Of course, a sliding scale
would be better, perhaps even one that resulted in a _lower_ revenue the more
the population were above the optimum, but that would be more complicated than
I care for.

How to determine the optimum population? That's the bit I haven't had the
time to work out yet. Something based on the physical characteristics of the
system's main world, plus a random roll of 2D* 100 million to reflect the
value of the rest of the system (the last factor only for sufficiently
high-tech societies, of course). Come to think of it, tech level would
come into the first part too, wouldn't it?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3346
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Changing careers
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 21:08:42 MET

>Mike Metlay writes:
>
>One other small matter that I hope will be addressed by the new character
>generation system in TNE: multiple career changes as a legal part of the
>rules. The average person in our society changes careers over twenty
>times in his or her life; in Traveller you're not allowed to do it at all,
>unless you're a Vargr. You're a Navy man when you're 18, and the only way
>you can try something different when you're 26 is to muster out and
>become an adventurer, with a big set of gaps in your skill lists as compared
>to the 42-year-olds out there.

I agree. I have a half-finished article with rules for career changes lying
around somewhere. My character for the PBM game spent a term in the army
before beginning his main career. The (NPC) doctor in my naval campaign is
an ex-doctor merchant purser who joined the navy during the 5th Frontier
war and stayed.

>                               My personal bias would be to state that a
>person can only serve in one MILITARY establishment in their career, and
>would then need to move to paramilitary or civilian organizations.

One of the rules I have is that you can't join the law enforcers if you've
had a dishonorable discarge (I use a missed survival roll as an involuntary
career end and a missed reenlistmint roll as a voluntary one). On the other
hand, ex-military with good papers recieve a bonus on the law enforcer
enlistment roll.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3347
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: potential energy
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 10:03:24 GMT

Jerry Williams (gsw@whservd.att.com) writes:
> Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:
> > 
> > >		On the other hand, GmM/r is the escape energy of Sol, 
> > > which is the kinetic energy required to produce a velocity of ~30 km/s.
> > > For a ship weighing say, 1 T, that's 4.5e11 J, or 450 000 MJ. Not to
> > > be sneezed at.
> > 
> > A ship accelerating at 1-G will achieve that velocity in less than an hour,
> > using just its manoeuvre drive.
> 
> Perhaps that is one answer -- require all ships entering jumpspace to
> have enough kinetic energy (speed) to escape from the local star's
> gravity well.  Then, a ship jumping from Sol to empty space would end
> up with (almost) no kinetic energy after the jump, then after jumping
> to Alpha Centauri it would gain as much kinetic energy as potential
> energy that it lost.

Of course, things don't balance out quite so neatly when the destination
star has more or less mass than the departure star.  Maybe part of the jump
calculation involves arranging that you exit jump space at a distance such
that the escape velocity from the destination star at that distance, is equal
to the escape velocity from the departure star at the distance at which you
entered jump space.  Using distance from the star to balance out the different
mass of the star ensures that the escape energy at each end is about the same,
and the jump drive doesn't get overloaded trying to compensate for the
different energies.

The jump drive would then convert the ship's kinetic energy into jump energy,
and back again when the ship exits jump space.  Kinetic energy would probably
be meaningless or totally different in jump space.

> Of course, there will have to be extra energy expended for the jump
> itself.  Probably that energy would be expended as lost heat energy
> or something.

That's accounted for by the huge amount of fuel which has to be burned by the
jump drive.

When you exit jump space ...

> As I mentioned, the energy could just as easily be transferred into
> kinetic energy.  Or it could go into the jump capacitors.  As long
> as you aren't getting free energy from the jump, I don't mind how
> it is modelled.

And now you know why you have to be at least 10 diameters away from the
planet before you jump, preferably 100 diameters.  (And probably some
significant distance away from the star, too.)  If you're too close to
a gravity source, the jump capacitors or jump drive get overloaded.  Boom.

And now for something completely different:

James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR> writes:
> Subject: (3337) Comment on Classic Traveller
> 
> A funny thought.  On my X-windows display, the configured icon image for
> my shell windows is an Imperial starburst, not a shattered sun ala
> MegaTraveller.

Use the shattered sun to indicate when something goes wrong.  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3348
Date:     Wed, 18 Dec 91 13:12:17 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Discomfort Rule for Seats and Staterooms




            SUGGESTIONS FOR DISCOMFORT RATINGS IN MEGATRAVELLER, or
                Putting Some Teeth in the Accommodations Rules

     The MegaTraveller design sequence rules have always been full of  flaws, 
holes,  and  inconsistencies, which GDW has regrettably not yet  made  right.  
The level of detail of various sections is incongruous, with 'agility genera-
tors'  of zero mass and volume (but using hundreds or thousands of  megawatts 
of power nevertheless) side by side with communicators smaller than your fist 
whose volume we are supposed to track in a ship the size of an office  build-
ing.  Enough of that.

     MegaTraveller  introduced  the use of seats of varying sizes  (from  'no 
access'  to 'roomy') for the crew and passengers of small vehicles, but  gave 
no rules for their use.  What difference can it possibly make, do I hear  you 
ask?  Well, as someone who does not like to be stuffed into a subcompact  car  
('cramped'  seats)  for  eight hours at a stretch, I have come  up  with  the 
following  rules  suggestion.  Like most suggestions, this is  not  something 
that  I would keep track of on a regular basis, but rather something  that  I 
would use when the players seemed to be abusing the system (or abusing  their 
characters!)

     I  would suggest that a task roll be made occasionally, with the  timing 
to  depend on the type of accommodation, to avoid discomfort.  The effect  of 
discomfort would be to reduce all applicable skills by one per failed discom-
fort  roll,  with a maximum reduction to an effective skill  of  zero.   This 
represents  fatigue.  Try checking for 'seats' once per hour,  for  'extended 
occupancy seats' once every four hours, and long term accommodations daily.

     To avoid discomfort, <difficulty>, Determination, <time> (absolute)

Difficulties would be:

                    No Access seat, or Bunk: Formidable
    Cramped or Open Seat or Small Stateroom: Difficult
Adequate seat or Double Occupancy Stateroom: Routine
   Roomy seat or Single Occupancy Stateroom: Simple

Thus, a space fighter pilot on a six day patrol mission in a craft with small 
craft staterooms would roll a difficult task once per day to avoid discomfort 
related  to the length of his patrol.  The driver of a small ground car  with 
cramped seats would roll once per hour for a difficult task, and will  proba-
bly  be driving at less than his maximum efficiency as he approaches the  end 
of a ten hour trip.

The effects of discomfort would be ended when the affected character has time 
enough  to  rest in a 'larger environment', let's say for at least  half  the 
time  increment of the seat type.  Thus, a driver could remove the effect  of 
one level of discomfort by spending a half and hour at a rest stop along  the 
highway.  I have to think about this section a bit more, but it's a start.

Judicious  application  of this rule should encourage players  to  spend  the 
extra  money on larger vehicles with spacious accommodations, which helps  to 
give that realistic feel to the game.

Rob Dean

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
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Subject: TML Bundle #277: Msgs 3349-3362
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Dec 25 21:00:10 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #277: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3349  18-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Another Pair of Vehicles << Sword Worlds Wagn
3350  18-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Re: (3317) Re: Starship Passengers and... << 
3351  18-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Re: (3320) << Carl Fago asks: > > 2000 cr/jum
3352  19-Dec-91 gsw@whservd.att.C Re: potential energy << Adrian Hurt <adrian@c
3353  19-Dec-91 "Doc Kinne: User  Intro & General Questions... << Morning Folks
3354  19-Dec-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << Subject: Travel distances Adrian Hurt Not
3355  19-Dec-91 Ed Sharpe         Shields/Dune << Has anybody ever explained th
3356  19-Dec-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: potential energy << "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC
3357  20-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Welcome, Doc. << "Doc" Kinne writeth: > > Thi
3358  20-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Re: Shields/Dune << BAD SHARPE! NO BISCUIT! B
3359  20-Dec-91 Cynthia_Higginbot Efate Vehicles << Here are some typical Efate
3360  20-Dec-91 Cynthia_Higginbot Efate System << Here is a system I developed 
3361  19-Dec-91 chuck.mcknight@f1 GENIE << From: david_bolack@f104.n170.z1.fido
3362  20-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Missile Boat and Acceleration Comment << Some

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3349
Date:     Wed, 18 Dec 91 13:12:45 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Another Pair of Vehicles




Sword Worlds Wagner class Close Escort TL12

     The Wagner class close escort is in service with the the Sacnoth Navy 
(in the Sword Worlds Confederation).  A few of the ships have been sold to 
Sword Worlds space mercenary units as privateers, but the Wagner is not 
popular in this service due to the limited cargo and accommodation space, 
which makes carrying loot, prisoners, and prize crews difficult.  Like all 
miliatary starships at this tech level, the Wagner is handicapped by the 
large fusion plant necessary for high performance.  In the trade-off determi-
nation, the design team of the Wagner elected to retain a high endurance at 
the expense of cargo space, accommodations, and fast fuel processing.  This 
is a reasonable decision for military use, but did limit the sales to private 
concerns anticipated by the navy as a source of extra revenue.  Similar 
vessels can be found in the Vargr Extents , and among the lower tech worlds 
of the Imperium.

  CraftID: Wagner class Close Escort, TL12, MCr354
     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400t, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Loaded=7980t,
           Unloaded=6840t
    Power: 48/96, Fusion=4260MW, Duration=30 days 
     Loco: 40/80, Maneuver=4 (Thrusters=28.6kt), 15/30, Jump=3,
           MaxSpeed=1000kph, Cruise=750kph, TrueAcc=3.6G, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=System, MaserComm=System
  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(FarOrbit), EMS Jammer(Far Orbit), 
           EMS Passive (Interstellar), Neutrino Sensor (1MW),
           HighPenDens (50m), ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, 
           PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout,
           PassEnPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=4

               Missiles=x02         BeamLaser=xx3
           Batteries      2                     1
           Bearing        2                     1

      Def: DefDM+10

               SandCaster=x04
           Batteries        1
           Bearing          1

  Control: Computer Mod6*3, 8*HeadsUpDisplay, 360*DynLink
    Accom: Crew=12 (2 bridge, 2 engineer, 2 gunners, 3 flight, 2 command,
           1 medic), Staterooms=6, Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls,
           grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=2614kl (1 jump-3+30 days), Cargo=9kl, MissileMagazine=30kl 
           (50b-r), Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (40hr), ObjSize=Avg, 
           EmLevel=Faint






Sword Worlds Titania class Fighter-Launch TL12

     The Titania class fighter-launch was designed and built by the Yard 
Branch of the Sacnoth Navy.  It is a common auxiliary craft aboard small 
starships of the Sacnoth Navy, and is available for export.  

  CraftID: Titania class Fighter-Launch, TL12, MCr31.1 (24.88) 
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20t, Config=1SL, Armor=40F, Loaded=632t,
           Unloaded=590t
    Power: 6/12, Fusion=510MW, Duration=36 hours 
     Loco: 4/8, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=2210t), MaxSpeed=1000kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, NOE=40kph, TrueAcc=3.5G, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System, MaserComm=System
  Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit), EMS Passive (Interplanetary),
           ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                  Missile=x01      BeamLaser=xx1
           Batteries        1                  1
           Bearing          1                  1

      Def: DefDM+7

               SandCaster=x03
           Batteries        1
           Bearing          1

  Control: Computer Mod2*3, 2*HeadsUpDisplay, 110*DynLink
    Accom: Crew=2 (pilot, gunner), Passengers=10, Seats=Roomy*12,
           Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp, 
           airlock
    Other: Fuel=9.18kl, Cargo=40kl, MissileMagazine=2kl (20b-r), ObjSize=Avg, 
           EmLevel=Faint

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3350
Date:     Wed, 18 Dec 91 14:42:36 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (3317) Re: Starship Passengers and...

richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson) writes:
> Subject: (3317) Re: Starship Passengers and...
> 
> ... and even more on trade and commerce.
> 
> Rob Dean asks about Mike Surman's observation that space flight costs so
> damn much.
> 
> :What do you need to maintain life in space?  Food (cheap), air (cheaper),
> :water (cheap), power (lots of it on a ship), specialized equipment (already
> :included in the cost of the ship--extended life support isn't real cheap,
> :plus we pay annual maintenance on it.)
> 
> Well, if I were running a little passenger line between say Efate and
> Bounghe, or some such, I'd also throw in:
> 
>    salaries of people aboard
>    dead-head space (passengers who won't be there for a return flight)
>    routine bribes
>    PROFIT  (double all yer expenses...)

In fact, all of these costs _are_ already included in the system.  (Well, OK,
bribes would have to implemented by the GM, but that's no big deal.)  My
objection is to paying Cr2000 per occupied stateroom, _just for the life
support costs_, according to the rules.  A little extrapolation at those sorts
of rates would probably be interesting when applied to something like a current
SSBN, which may remain cruising submerged for a couple of months.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3351
Date:     Wed, 18 Dec 91 14:48:43 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re: (3320)

Carl Fago asks:
>
> 2000 cr/jump is the _passenger_ rate, is it not?  The crews' lifesupport
> is already figured in the cost of the ship expenses.  When I was running
> a merchant with a crew, I did not charge the crew for passage.  The cost
> of the crews' life support is figured into the cost of the ticket for
> a passenger.

Actually, according to the rules (and this goes back to classic Trav), you
are incorrect.  It's Cr2000 per occupied stateroom regardless of whether its
occupied by crew or passenger, and Cr4000 to stuff two people into a state-
room on a double occupancy basis.  See page 89, right column, Imperial
Encyclopedia.  Oddly enough, the MT rules are less restrictive.  In Classic
Traveller, you payed per stateroom, regardless of whether or not it was
occupied.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3352
From: gsw@whservd.att.COM
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 11:23 EST
Subject: Re: potential energy

Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:

> Of course, things don't balance out quite so neatly when the destination
> star has more or less mass than the departure star.  Maybe part of the jump
> calculation involves arranging that you exit jump space at a distance such
> that the escape velocity from the destination star at that distance, is equal
> to the escape velocity from the departure star at the distance at which you
> entered jump space.  Using distance from the star to balance out the different
> mass of the star ensures that the escape energy at each end is about the same,
> and the jump drive doesn't get overloaded trying to compensate for the
> different energies.
> 
> The jump drive would then convert the ship's kinetic energy into jump energy,
> and back again when the ship exits jump space.  Kinetic energy would probably
> be meaningless or totally different in jump space.

That was kind of what I was thinking.  If you think of stars and planets
as "gravity wells", then you would jump to a point with the same "depth"
as the other "well".  The 100-diameter rule would be to keep you clear of
planets and stars, no matter what their relative densities are.  I'm sure
you can still imagine jumping from an near a small star into the inside
of a red giant since the gravity is the same (has anyone read A Mote in
God's Eye?  Hope that black globe is working 8-).  The biggest worry I'd
have is being too close to the planet, and jumping out closer to the star
than I expected since the "gravity well" is the same depth there.

I like the idea of requiring that you be at escape velocity first, since
that means your ship is at "zero energy" overall.

Note, if you don't allow direct and immediate conversion of kinetic to
potential energy upon leaving jump space, then it would be impossible to
jump to a point of higher potential energy (further from the star), since
that would require you to add potential energy to the ship.  Also, if you
tried to jump to a point nearer to the star, there would be a great deal
of excess energy, which nature often expresses as heat.  Can you say BOOM?
And a vacuum is a great insulator!

(If you don't want Niven-style jump drives, then you still must account
for the extra energy.  In this case, simply start with enough kinetic
energy to reach escape velocity and end at near rest when well away from
any start, allowing kinetic energy to be converted to potential energy
by the jump.  Similarly, add kinetic energy when you jump towards a
star.  If you jump from deep space towards a large star, you'd end up
hurdling towards the star when you arrived -- don't arrive too close!
Of course if you use this, there is the problem of momentum -- are you
allowing ships to store up momentum in different directions?).

> > Of course, there will have to be extra energy expended for the jump
> > itself.  Probably that energy would be expended as lost heat energy
> > or something.
> 
> That's accounted for by the huge amount of fuel which has to be burned by the
> jump drive.

Now, where does this energy go?  If it goes into the mysterious "jump
space", then jump drives are slowly leaking energy out of our universe.
I think more likely it would be radiated into space as heat.  Of course,
that heat had better be left behind, not brought with you (Have you ever
watched a ship enter jump space?  Well, the ship looks like it's
stretching for a split second as the jump drive activates, followed by
a great white flash when the ship disappears.  No doubt boldly going
"where no one has gone before". 8-)

Jerry Williams
gsw@whservd.att.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3353
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1991 10:24 EST
From: "Doc Kinne: User Services Associate" <KINNERC%SNYMORVA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Intro & General Questions...

Morning Folks:

        This is an intro post from the (dare I say it?) newest member
of TML.  James suggested it.

        After about three years of virtually loosing Net access since
I graduated State University of New York at Oswego and comming to
State University of New York College of Agriculture and Technology at
Morrisville (ever try to write something like that on the little
"employer" lines they give you on forms?) we here at Morrisville have
finally started connecting ourselves to the world.  Now, with our
kids on Xmas break I've had time to do a little exploring and found
the TML.

        I've been "involved" with Traveller since 1980 when I found
the Classic Traveller books.  Previous to this my role playing
experience was dedicated to D&D.  I took to the rules, seeing them as
flexible enough for nearly any scenario save, perhaps, Star Trek.
While GDW had a backround for the game, (the Imperium, of course) the
rules didn't require its use which was another plus to a poor PRE-
college student (Gods, has it been THAT long?!).  If I could make
something myself instead of buying it, I would.  So, I started heavily
using the Steller System Generation rules to create my own Universe.

        Upon comming to College I found one person ((!)  For some reason
I've not found Traveller to be as popular as I think it should be.  I
mentioned to James that I might be hanging around the wrong crowd) who
liked to play.  Allison had worked out some extensive characters and plots
set against the Imperium backdrop.  We infrequently played for two years
using this backdrop until she left college.

        In 1985 that was the end of Traveller for me, except for the
work I continued to do with my Universe, the Terran Empire.  This was
broken for 2 months in 1990 when I ran a short Classic Traveller
campaign with 5 kids from the College I now work for.  It was short lived
but fun.

        Allison and I continued to keep in close contact over the years.
This last Thanksgiving I had to go to Long Island for a wedding and I
stayed with her, especially when she said that her gaming group was
starting a Traveller campaign and if I could make it down by such&such a
time I could play.  I did make it down and I did play.  Alas, it was only
to be for one session since I live in Central New York.

        Allison suggested continuing the game with me playing by email.
Reluctantly I agreed since I feel that email is a very poor medium for
role playing.  Also, during the game I was able to get my first serious
look at the MegaTraveller rules and found out the vast changes that had
occured in the game system in my absence.  As the email campaign started,
on a larc I went and bought a MegaTraveller set that I've been going over
for the past couple weeks.

        While it seems that GDW has make the Imperium backdrop slightly
more intrigal to the rules, they still have that hallmark of flexibility
that I remember so well.  Between the email campaign and this list I'm
hoping for a "rebirth" of my Traveller involvement.
=================================================================

        In going through even the first nights digest I've come across
some questions that I hope the group will take time to answer.

1.      What is the current status of Digest Group Publications?  From
various rumors I've heard they have either gone under or were cutting
back on their Traveller material development.

2.      Does anyone know what GDW's and/or DGP Traveller line will be
for 1992?

3.      I also came across some acronyms that weren't familiar to me.
I assume T:2000 was Traveller:2000.  This was a rule system that I
TOTALLY missed out on.  What relation does this rule system have
with Classic Traveller and/or MegaTraveller, if any?  I also came
across the acronym "TNE:" in a posting that suggested that
GDW was working on yet another revision of the Traveller rules
(Traveller V3.0?).  This is something I have heard nothing about.

                                May you never misjump,
- --
AT&T: (315)684-6161 (W)              Richard C. F. "Doc" Kinne, N2IKR
Compuserve: 70721,636                User Services Associate
InterNet: kinnerc@snymorva.BITNET    Academic Computing Center
PBBS: N2IKR@N2KQN.#WNY.NY.USA.NA     SUNY Morrisville
                                     Morrisville, NY  13408
Quote: "Death is that state where one exists only in the memory of others,
        so it is not an ending.  No goodbyes, just good memories.
        Hailing frequencies closed, sir."
                                        -Lt. Natasha Yar
                        _Skin of Evil_, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Gene Roddenberry: 1921-1991.  Rest in Peace, Great Bird.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3354
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 10:42:01 EST
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

Subject: Travel distances

Adrian Hurt Notes:
[]And now you know why you have to be at least 10 diameters away from the
[]planet before you jump, preferably 100 diameters.  (And probably some
[]significant distance away from the star, too.)  If you're too close to
[]a gravity source, the jump capacitors or jump drive get overloaded.  Boom.

When working on my 2300ad SYSGEN program (I seem to do a lot of these, don't
I?) I had some calculation to figure the stutterwarp limit fro a star.

Given that:
   (1) Stutterwarp limit for a world is 0.0001g influence. 
   (2) Due to the square law, for earth this is 100 radii
   (3) Ergo -- Safe Jump Range ~= Stutterwarp limit

With that in mind, should T:TNE have Jump Limits delimited by MASS instead of
SIZE?  No matter if you have 1 earth mass in one earth diameter or in half an
earth diameter, the 0.0001g radius will be the same from the center of mass.
The only effect size has is how much distance you have to cover before you
reach the limit.

Likewise, for any star, the Jump limit will depend on the solar mass.
I think I calculated the limit for sol to be around 2.44 AU (past Mars),
but that was based on other assumptions.  If SIZE/DENSITY (thus MASS) is 
generated in the world building system, you can simply plug it into the
formula:

   JD = SQRT(mass) * 642 - (size/2)

Where (mass) is earth masses and (size) is diameter (in 1000's of km).

Result is in 1000's of km.  A simple table can be figured (G-Thrust vs. 
JD) to give a simple look-up of time to Jump Distance.

For stars, simply ignore the (size) modifier (you don't care about landing
on the surface!).  Time can be based on star's JD - (world AU * 14900).
If negative, you can jump after reaching the world's JD.

===============================================================================
Burton Choinski                                       Phoenix Technologies, LTD
"All opinions are mine, not Phoenix's"                            Cambridge, MA
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3355
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 16:46:22 PST
From: Ed Sharpe <esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: Shields/Dune

Has anybody ever explained the body shields from Dune in traveller terms. 
Tech Level, How they work, cost, and game machincs?

esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3356
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: potential energy
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 14:26:26 GMT

"C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA> writes:
> >>		On the other hand, GmM/r is the escape energy of Sol, 
> >> which is the kinetic energy required to produce a velocity of ~30 km/s.
> >> For a ship weighing say, 1 T, that's 4.5e11 J, or 450 000 MJ. Not to
> >> be sneezed at.
> >
> >A ship accelerating at 1-G will achieve that velocity in less than an hour,
> >using just its manoeuvre drive.  (To get to 30000 m/s using an acceleration
> >of 9.8 m/s^2 will take 3061 seconds, i.e. 51 minutes.)  Maybe not to be
> 
> You realise what you just said?  A spacecraft with a 1-G maneuver drive
> can produce 4.5e11 J in 3000 s, for an average power output of 150 MW.
> Constant-acceleration drives are scary.

That's nothing.  See what happens if the same ship leaves its drives on for
a week.  (Actually, I'll tell you what happens.  TML gets bogged down with
another discussion of how to destroy a planet.  :-)  But approximately
constant acceleration for about an hour should be possible; and even if it
isn't, a ship with 2-G acceleration should still be able to get to 30000 m/s
without too much trouble.  The ship in question is likely to be the good old
Type S scout/courier, mass at least 840 tons, kinetic energy 3.78e14 J.  Like
I said, these might be big numbers, but they're what you have to deal with if
you want to move starships around.  I'll let you figure out the kinetic energy
available to some of the big warships, mass in the hundreds of thousands of
tons, acceleration 6-G!

> >So the ship expends its 4.5e11 J, and get into jump space.  One week later,
> >it emerges from jump space near Alpha Centauri, and gets 4.5e11J back -
> >what happens to this energy?
> 
> Depending on how jumpspace is supposed to work, I shouldn't think the 
> hundred billion joules of GPE would have to be 'spent'.

Not so much "spent" as "lent" for about a week.  The ship gets the energy
back (or at least, some of it) when it comes back out of jump space.

>							   The only 
> relevent number ought to be the difference in initial and final 
> energies.  If the energy did have to come from somewhere, it would be
> a very blatant violation of the 2nd law of Thermodynamics to get it back 
> in the capacitors.

Why?  The jump drive converts energy, presumably electrical energy and lots
of it, into some sort of "jump energy", in order to get the ship into jump
space in the first place.  It may be able to convert it back into electrical
energy, although some energy will be lost in the process, either as heat or
left behind somehow in jump space.  Otherwise, what happens to all the energy
produced when the jump drive burns up all that fuel?

>		     More plausible would be to get it as kinetic energy,
> but physical reality would almost certainly produce it as heat. Which
> would vapourise the ship, very quickly.

Great.  Every ship that executes a jump gets fried when it re-enters our
universe.  This ought to ruin the day of a good few traders!  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3357
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 04:08:42 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Welcome, Doc.

"Doc" Kinne writeth:
>
>        This is an intro post from the (dare I say it?) newest member
>of TML.  James suggested it.

Yeh, he WOULD. |-> Welcome, Doc. My name's Metlay, and I'm the TML 
Historian, when not separated from my library by 600 miles like
I am now. |-P My credentials are sufficient for the job, IMO.

Now then, to answer your queries:


>1.      What is the current status of Digest Group Publications?  From
>various rumors I've heard they have either gone under or were cutting
>back on their Traveller material development.

They're alive but preparing to push a game of their own, A.I., rather
than continue to support Traveller. Their loss will be missed, despite
the fact that Joe Fugate's blithe editorial comments have shredded any
resemblance between Traveller physics and real physics (Hot Topic #1).

>2.      Does anyone know what GDW's and/or DGP Traveller line will be
>for 1992?

Traveller: The New Era will be released in the fall. See below.

The last issue of the MegaTraveller Journal (3) will be out eventually,
then DGP sews up their Traveller line, maybe for good.

>3.      I also came across some acronyms that weren't familiar to me.
>I assume T:2000 was Traveller:2000.  This was a rule system that I
>TOTALLY missed out on.  What relation does this rule system have
>with Classic Traveller and/or MegaTraveller, if any?  I also came
>across the acronym "TNE:" in a posting that suggested that
>GDW was working on yet another revision of the Traveller rules
>(Traveller V3.0?).  This is something I have heard nothing about.

T:2000 stands for Twilight:2000, a postnuclear game with a different 
rules system than Traveller's and a different history, which leads
into Traveller:2300, renamed 2300AD, also no relation to Trav or MegTrav.

Traveller: The NEw Era is the latest rev of Traveller (v.3.0) that is 
currently in preparation. It will use a new rules system based on the
same principles as Dark Conspiracy and the 2nd edition of Twilight,
and will take place several decades after the Rebellion, in the midst
of another societal collapse. GDW claims to be listening to our input
on these matters; however, they have stonewalled on certain things
that look really terrible, and the outlook (for those of us who use
the Imperium, especially) is glum.

>                                May you never misjump,

Again, welcome.

- ---
metlay                           | It's the week before Christmas, and
just another guy with an Xpander | I'm stuck in Atomic City again.
                                 | 
metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu    | OK, God. What'd I do THIS time? |-<

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3358
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 03:53:28 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Re: Shields/Dune

BAD SHARPE! NO BISCUIT! Body shields= force fields= STAR TREK or 
STAR WARS. NOT TRAVELLER. Non-physics. Much useless handwaving.
Enough trouble with thruster plates already. Bad bad bad.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3359
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 07:19:37 CST
From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agwbbs@cs.tulane.edu (Cynthia Higginbotham)
Subject: Efate Vehicles

Here are some typical Efate vehicles:

 
Efate 4-seat car TL 13
 
        Efate 4-Seat Grav Car - the basic personal car.  Like most
popular brands of civilian vehicles, it gets part of its power from
solar panels.  The extra performance is free during the day, and on
Efate, the attitude is that you have no business being out at night,
anyway.
 
Craft ID: Efate Four Seat Grav Car, TL 13, Cr 13,0008
        
Hull:   1/1, Disp=0.5, Config=4SL, Armor=4F,
        Unloaded=0.44 tons, loaded=0.97 tons
 
Power:  1/2, Solar Cells=0.567 MW, Duration=indef,
        1/2, Closed-cycle Fuel Cells=0.045 MW, Duration=12 hours
 
Loco:   1/2, LowPowHiG Thrust=1.6 tons (1.375 w/o solar),
        NOE=40, Cruise=540 kph (360), Top=720 (480) kph
 
Commo:  Radio=Regional x1
 
Sensors: All-weather Radar=Dist x1, LI/Passive IR,
        ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
 
Control: Panel=Electronic x4, Environ=BasEnv, BasLS (cabin only)
 
Accom:  Crew=1 (driver), seats=cramped x2, none x2
 
Other:  Cargo=0.13 kl, Fuel=0.0216 kl, Hand Computer x1,
        ObjSize=small, EMLevel=moderate
 
 
Efate 6-ton truck TL 13
 
        The basic medium transport; found everywhere.
 
Craft ID: Efate 6-ton Grav Truck, TL 13, Cr 48,776
        An open-bed truck with a cab.
 
Hull:   2/3, Disp=1.0, Config=4SL, Armor=4F,
        Unloaded=1.3 tons, loaded=7.9 tons
 
Power:  1/2, Solar Cells=0.2835 MW, Duration=indef,
        1/2, Closed-cycle Fuel Cells=0.27 MW, Duration=24 hours
 
Loco:   1/2, LowPowHiG Thrust=13 tons (12 w/o solar),
        NOE=40, Cruise=540 (450) kph, Top=720 (600) kph
 
Commo:  Radio=Regional x1
 
Sensors: All-weather Radar=Dist x1, LI/Passive IR,
        ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
 
Control: Panel=Electronic x16, Environ=BasEnv, BasLS (cab only)
 
Accom:  Crew=1 (driver), seats=cramped x4
 
Other:  Cargo=6.2 kl, Fuel=0.0864 kl, Hand Computer x1,
        ObjSize=small, EMLevel=moderate
 
 
Efate Executive Transport TL 13
 
        Grav equivalent of the Lear BizJet - can also transport busy
        executives ground-to-orbit; doesn't have the sensors for deep
        space use.
 
Craft ID: Efate Executive Transport, TL 13, Cr 2,334,016
 
Hull:   9/23, Disp=10, Config=1AF, Armor=10F,
        Unloaded=36.85 tons, loaded=46.56 tons
 
Power:  1/2, Fusion=27 MW, Duration=14/42
 
Loco:   1/2, Std Grav Thrust=200 tons,
        NOE=40, Cruise=1924 kph, Top=2565 kph,
        (Efate: NOE=40, Cruise=2138 kph, Top=2850 kph)
 
Commo:  Radio=Continental x1, MaserComm=Planetary x1
 
Sensors: All-weather Radar=v Dist x1, LI/Passive IR,
        ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
 
Off/Def: +2
 
Control: Computer=0x2, Panel=DynaLink x20, Special=HeadUp Holo, 
        Environ=BasEnv, BasLS, ExtLS, Grav
 
Accom:  Crew=2, seats=roomy x12, bunks x4
 
Other:  Cargo=8 kl, Fuel=10.162 kl, 
        ObjSize=small, EMLevel=moderate


- -- Via DLG Pro v0.985b

agwbbs!cynthia_higginbotham@cs.tulane.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3360
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 07:16:48 CST
From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agwbbs@cs.tulane.edu (Cynthia Higginbotham)
Subject: Efate System

    Here is a system I developed for use in our Traveller and GURPS
Cyberpunk
campaigns.  Enjoy.
 
Efate  / Spinward Marches 1107
 
System
 
Primary: K4V
 
0 - Sou Marie   HS00163-C
1 - EFATE       A646930-D B Hi In       8e9
2 - Virenne     Y456232-C   Mn
3 - Naimless    Y403000-0  
        01      (ring)          YR00000-0       100m/1km M
4 - Etienne     Y754303-C   Mn
5 - D'Astrou    F100711-D   Mn Re  SuSag plant.
6 - Neu Marne   F904630-D   Mn Re
7 - Nonfuer     G710201-D   Mn Re
        03      Nonfuer Ay      Y810000-0
        05      Nonfuer Bee     Y430000-0
        25      Nonfuer See     H400000-0
8 - Yarag       Y400252-C   Mn
12 - L'Envoi    Y300000-0   (captured planet)
 
 
        Note: The Efate system is developed, and there is a great deal
of insystem traffic, especially between Efate, D'Astrou and Neu Marne. 
Perhaps more interplanetary transport than interstellar calls at Efate.
        D'Astrou is the site of a major SuSag manufacturing center, and
all the support industry that has grown up around it, and all the
businesses catering to the needs of the employees of those industries,
and their families, etc.
        The research bases noted are mostly corporate facilities, as are
the myriad of mining and other manufacturing sites located around the
system.
 
 
Efate
 
Spinward Marches 1705 / Efate A646930-D
 
    Efate is a Libertarian's dream and everyone else's nightmare.  The
dominant society on Efate was founded by Solomani, possibly of Terran
French or colonial French ancestry, judging from the French names in
common use, but after a thousand years of folklore and revisionist
history, who can tell?  The Charter of Efate established a Libertarian
society -- that is, minimal-to-no government and a totally free market
economy.  The end result has been that (1) anything that can be sold for
a profit can be found for sale on Efate; (2) self-defense is not only
encouraged, it's mandatory; (3) power is in the hands of those with both
money and the respect of their neighbors.   
    Corollaries to (1 & 2): No manner of goods are illegal, including
weapons, drugs, and body modifications.  Everyone is either armed, or
can afford to hire competent armed security.  Long-lived people are
polite.  Certain classes favor cybernetic enhancements; Efate Vargr in
particular consider "chrome" to be the most macho status/charisma symbol
imaginable.  (note: GURPS Efate is my off again/on again Cyberpunk
campaign).  "Jacked" equipment is common on Efate, almost unknown
offworld (many Imperial worlds, and the common Imperial "spacer"
culture, consider plugging computers directly into your brain
distasteful, to say the least).  "Decking" is a common activity on the
Net; Efate computer security tends to be second to none behind the Claw;
so too, run the skills and equipment of Efate "crackers".  Efate
Cyberdecks are highly illegal items on most neighboring worlds of
similar tech levels, and computer experts from Efate are regarded with
suspicion elsewhere.
   Corporations on Efate are utterly cutthroat with each other, but
almost universally provide excellent customer service -- the customer
makes or breaks an Efate Corp or MegaCorp branch office.  Efate has the
finest corporate security, espionage and counter-espionage personnel
behind the Claw -- there is no government protection of trade secrets,
etc.  What would be legal disputes, including criminal ones, elsewhere,
are decided by private arbitration or custom here.
    On the several northern continents, the cities are primarily
inhabited by descendants of the Charter colonists, and immigrants who
have adopted the Libertarian way of life, as well as a large Vargr
community and almost any human or non-human minority imaginable.  Vargr
find the Libertarian ethos most congenial to their way of life.  The
rural areas are controlled by vast Agricorp estates and Aslan land
holdings; Efate is home to three minor Aslan clans.  The Aslan clans
wield power disproportionate to their numbers due to the wealth of the
clan holdings, and the influence of their honorable and thus highly
respected clan leaders.  
    Franklin "Down-Under" is on the Southern continent, which was
settled by peoples of different background than the Charter colonists;
mostly Vilani and mixed Solomani.  These folk have different customs,
and pay lip service to the Libertarian charter but run things in a more
formal fashion, though they are allowed no higher government structure
than local community level by the Charter.  Most of the rural holdings
here are ranches; the grasslands and desert were more suitable for
raising livestock than farming in the early days of Efate.  However,
Northern settlers looking for land in an area not all locked up in
AgriCorp lands or Aslan holdings have been moving down here and
homesteading farms -- at TL 13, farming is feasible and profitable in
some very unlikely areas -- and bringing the Northern, libertarian
social order with them.  The result has been constant conflict between
the "Franklanders" and the "Northerners"; under the Charter, the
Franklanders have no real recourse save violence if they cannot work out
a compromise with the Northerners.  Unfortunately, certain influential
factions of the Franklanders considered any compromise further
corruption of their Way of Life, and resolved to secede from the Charter
of Efate.  In 1105 they attempted to form the Republic of Franklin;
creating a government on the Southern continent where there had been
none before.  This caused very bad reactions from all the other power
groups on Efate (except the Aslan), who saw any form of Government as a
threat to the status quo -- and their perogatives.  The result was a
full-scale war where before there had been constant low-level
terrorism.  Efate being the way it is, the war was waged entirely with
mercenary forces on the one side, and entirely by dedicated rebels on
the other side.  
    The Imperium intervened when the war started infringing on the
Imperial Rules of War, and when the instability on Efate threatened
Imperial strategic interests in the Marches -- Efate is a major
shipbuilder, armaments supplier, and lynchpin of the coreward Marches
economy, after all.  During the Fifth Frontier war, it was discovered
that the Sword Worlds sponsored Ine Givar organization had been involved
in encouraging the "Rebellion".  It should be understood that the
grievances existed before ever the Sword Worlds got involved; the Ine
Givar advisors found volk who had similar views and ethics and played on
their sympathies as brethren in a sea of corrupt and decadent scum who
threatened their Way of Life.  The Sword Worlds connection provided the
financing that gave the Republican forces a fighting chance for so long,
and the Ine Givar advisors provided training not available from the
usual sources on Efate, who were all committed to fighting them.
    One other cultural note: the deadly cold characteristic of Efate
nights has resulted in a deeply ingrained dread or fear of being caught
"outside" at night, with nowhere to take shelter.  It also means that
only the most depraved would refuse someone shelter from the nocturnal
cold.  
 
diameter: 6207 km       density: 1.06   mass: 0.517     surface G: 0.834
Rotation: 30h 11' 33"   year: 87.3 local/116.4 Earth days
axial tilt: 8d 20' 53"  Eccentricity: 0.0       satellites: none
core: molten                                    seismic stress: 3
atm pressure: 0.5 atm   atm composition: O2-N2 & local pollution
Hydro: 57%              Hydro comp: H2O
BMST: 15.0 C            seasonal mod: 5.0/-8.0    Eccentricity mod: 0/0
rotational mods: 6.0/-30.0                        Lat mod: 6.0
Weather Control: yes
 
Mapping: 5 maj cont, 6 min cont, 9 maj islands, 6 archipelgos
Resources: nat agri, ores, radioactives, crystals, agroproducts, 
           non-metals, parts, durables, consumables 
 
population: 8E9         native life: y
 
City/port:                           Port Pop   Orbital City  Port Pop 
 ---------------------------------   ---- ---   ------------------ ---
 New Marseilles-Papeete Metroplex       A 4e9   Orbital          A  2e7
 Gueret                                 A 8e8   Orbital          A  1e7
 Argentat                               A 5e8   Argentat Orbital A  1e7
 Entraygues                             A 4e8   Entraygues Orb.  A  2e7
 Franklin                               A 4e8   Franklin Orbital A  1e7
 
 Secondary x3                           F 9e7   & Orbitals x3    F  e6
 Secondary x24                          F 1-8e7 Orbitals   x14   F  e5
 Tertiary x66                           H  e6
 Tertiary x242                          H  e5
 Tertiary x1485                         H  e4
 
Social Outlook:
        Progressiveness         Att: Conserv            Act: Advancing
        Aggressiveness          Att: Competitive        Act: Militant
        Extensiveness           Global: Discordant      
                                Interstellar: Friendly
 
Customs: urban is Cyberpunk - body modification, extensive body 
         decoration common.  Fear of the night. Other customs based on
         Libertarian tradition.
 
Government:
        Representative Branch - Executive Councils
        "Legislative" Branch - Imperial Counsel 
        Judicial Branch - Judicial Councils
 
Legal: 
        Uniformity - Territorial
        Profile: 0-00000
 
Technological:
        Profile: DB-DDDEF-CCCF-ED-F
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
p.s. I have a map of Efate, too, but it's on paper. Has the TML come up
with some standard for uploading/representing world maps & deck plans?

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.985b

agwbbs!cynthia_higginbotham@cs.tulane.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3361
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 18:45:14 CDT
From: chuck.mcknight@f104.n170.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chuck McKnight)
Subject: GENIE

From: david_bolack@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org
Date: December 19, 1991
Subject: GENIE

About the new revision that is in the works. First let me explain
who/what I am. I have been gaming for a very few years (About 7-8
years) compared to most of people speaking here. I've only recently
begun to look into Traveller, having bought the Megatraveller set
last May and "The Traveller Book" a couple of weeks ago. (Kinda
redundant, but it was a mere $10.) I have yet to acquaint myself with
much beyond character generation, having only played in two games.

Now, how does this relate to the New Traveller.

For one, it places me in doubt as whether or not to continue to buy
any Traveller materials (of any of the incarnations), whether to wait
for this upcoming set, or whether or not to even continue to purchase
ANY Traveller oriented products, including these that are using
related systems.

I have also, the Dark Conspiracy book. I see a vast potential for
loss when changing from the Traveller to the DC system. Despite the
good intentions, if the Task system in Traveller was so horrid, how
could it have last 15 years?  I'm quite sure that Traveller, like any
system, has it's flaws, but it's better to patch a couple of potholes
then to tear up the asphalt and start again. You (GDW and DGP) have
at your literal fingertips access to years of many upon many gamers
who have numbers of different fillers for the potholes.  listen to
them. Not only do they know what they're talking about, they happen
to have a great deal at stake based on your decisions.

Another thought -  There is the possibility of alienating the older
and newer gamers from each other. Diehards from one system may treat
the newer players as players of an alien system, meanwhile, there are
also no old hands to show anyone the ropes - one of the risks of a
new system.

And this virus I've been reading about. Unless you do a good job of
setting it up, you'll lose in the long run.


If it is possible to join a list of playtesters, I would enjoy doing
so. As was mentioned before, it may be better to have newcomers do
such things as a bit of bias is lost.


David Bolack

- --  
Chuck McKnight - via FidoNet node 1:170/500
UUCP: tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu!tinylk!104!chuck.mcknight
INTERNET: chuck.mcknight@f104.n170.z1.FIDONET.ORG

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3362
Date:     Fri, 20 Dec 91 16:27:05 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Missile Boat and Acceleration Comment

Somebody recently commented that they hoped that the new revision would
remove 'artificial' restrictions on things like starship acceleration.
If you accept my rule of thumb (1 thruster/anti-grav maneuver unit=650t),
you can quickly figure what the maximum acceleration attainable at any given
TL is going to be.  At TL15, for instance, a 'large' fusion plant gives 18MW
per kl, or 9MW per ton.  70/9 tons are required to support a 35 ton
thruster unit with 650 tons of thrust output.  650/(35+(70/9))=15.2Gs.

At 10.4Gs, the Shriek is pretty fast, and would require special missiles--
6Gs probably wouldn't cut it.  (Well, OK, it could _fire_ 6-G missiles,
especially on a different heading, but 6-G missiles would rarely be able to
intercept one...)  It's also up in the range of acceleration that might be
considered to require special couches and high-G tolerance for the crew.





Shriek class Missile Boat TL15

     The Shriek class missile boat was designed for the Imperial Navy by 
ConTech of Glisten in 1112, as part of a proposed test of an 'escort rider' 
squadron.  The theory of course, is that what works well for larger combat-
ants should work well for smaller ones.  However, several delays in funding 
had pushed the projected test date into 1123 by the time that Glisten was 
overrun by the Aslan in 1121.  Only six Shrieks had been built, and they 
served with distinction racking up twenty three kills of smaller Aslan war-
ships at a loss of only one Shriek.  The five surviving boats were evacuated 
aboard a Lobachevsky class fleet tender during the Imperial Glisten Navy's 
final retreat from the system around 110-1121, and are currently (1122) de-
fending the now-strategic starport in the Grote system.

  CraftID: Shriek class Missile Boat, TL15, MCr464.9
     Hull: 720/1800, Disp=800, Config=1AF, Armor=40G, Unloaded=7921t,
           Loaded=8512t
    Power: 42/84, Fusion=11160MW, Dur=53.8 days
     Loco: 123/246, Maneuver=6, NOE=190kph, Cruise=3150kph,
           Max=4200kph, TrueAcc=10.38G, Agility=10
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=System, MaserComm=System
  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(Far Orbit), EMS Jammer(Far Orbit), EMS 
           Passive(Interstellar), High Pen Densitometer(1km), Neutrino
           Sensor(10kw), ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout,
           PassObjScan=Rout, PassObjPin=Rout, PassEnScan=Simp,            
           PassEnPin=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=8

           BeamLaser=xx4      Missile=x06
           Batteries   1                1
           Bearing     1                1

      Def: DefDm+20

           Sandcaster=xx4
           Batteries    1 
           Bearing      1 

  Control: Computer Mod9*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*50
    Accom: Crew=4 (1 bridge, 1 engineer, 2 gunnery), Staterooms=4, Env=basic
           env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=7210kl, Cargo=0, Missile Magazine=180kl (100b-r), Fuel
           Scoops, ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Faint
     Note: For full MT compatibility, consider acceleration to be 6-Gs,
           agility 0, and DefDM+10.

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Dec 30 00:29:33 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA19811) Mon, 30 Dec 91 00:29:18 EST
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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #278: Msgs 3363-3390
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 91 21:00:18 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Dec 29 21:00:11 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #278: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3363  20-Dec-91 uunet!ssbell.IMD. T:TNE(?) Have I been away too long? << Greeti
3364  21-Dec-91 Pauli             Re: Re: (3355) Shields/Dune << >Has anybody e
3365  21-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse The best thing about Traveller << Chuck McKni
3366  21-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Hard Times is Out! << I dropped in at my loca
3367  21-Dec-91 npc@soliton.physi  << Subject: Jumping and Energy. X-Envelope-t
3368  22-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Efate << > From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agw
3369  22-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Shields/Dune << > From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN
3370  22-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: potential energy << > From: Adrian Hurt <
3371  23-Dec-91 Joe Heck          Merry Christmas << Just a quick posting befor
3372  24-Dec-91 cadpoole@atlas.cs Merry Christmas << Sorry folks, I couldn't re
3373  24-Dec-91 TML Administrator TML Hiccups (*BURP!*) << Just a note, folks. 
3374  24-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN RE: Shields/Dune != oynssork << Bertil, the o
3375  24-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Wormholes NOT << I haven't the time for a rea
3376  24-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Hard Times and Good TImes << Well, I'm going 
3377  24-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Seasons Greetings! << Merry Christmas and Bes
3378  25-Dec-91 npc@soliton.physi  << Subject: Wormholes NOT(?) WARNING longish
3379  26-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: The best thing about Traveller << > From:
3380  26-Dec-91 cdr@kpc.COM       Re: Efate << Anyone interested in a High-tech
3381  26-Dec-91 Joe Heck          Future history << I don't know about others, 
3382  27-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Efate << Thanks. Nice work. But you've fo
3383  27-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: The best thing about Traveller << Bertil 
3384  27-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Library data: National Reemergence << Here's 
3385  27-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Bugs << Errata for my latest postings: in 'Re
3386  27-Dec-91 Joe Heck          Ancient Site << Okay - for all you fanatics..
3387  28-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Ancient sites << Joe Heck asks: > > Okay 
3388  28-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@organ Ancient sites << I'm in the middle of a recor
3389  29-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: The best thing about Traveller << > From:
3390  29-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Library data: National Reemergence << > F

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3363
From: uunet!ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM!chris@sequent.UUCP (Chris Olson)
Subject: T:TNE(?)  Have I been away too long?
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 15:41:40 CST

Greeting fellow travelleres!
 
It seems that my haitus from this list (~1.5 yrs since I've read it, but
only 6 mos. since I dropped it to keep mail-admin from complaining...)
has left me baffled.

Could some kind soul send me the scoop on T:TNE (Travller: The Next
Edition?)?  Information I would like to see (:-)):

	a)  What are they doing to the rules?
	b)  When will it be released?
	c)  Can I get my hands on a play-test copy?
	d)  Any and all rumors ;-)

The reason for the above questions is simple:

	I've run traveller before, and I'm starting up a new campaign by
	creating a universe for the players to explore/be from.  It'd
	be nice to do so with a coherent set of rules, not the gook that
	is MegaTraveller (Yes, I've run it.  Yes, I hate it :-().  And
	while Orig. Traveller is good (Yes, I've run it, yes I like it)
	there are several holes in the rules.

So, anybody out there got any answers?  My mail box is waiting :-)

Thanx,
	chris


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3364
Subject: Re: Re: (3355) Shields/Dune
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 12:28:45 +1100
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>


>Has anybody ever explained the body shields from Dune in traveller terms. 
>Tech Level, How they work, cost, and game machincs?

I'd probably rate them as an inferior form of white globe.  Therefore,
TL=20+  I seem to remember personal white globes as being TL=21 so it
might be possible to put them in at high TL20.  I won't say anything about
how they work.  The cost is going to be excessive if you can even locate
the things.

It might be saner to rate them as even more advanced than white globes since
they have properties that white globes aren't supposed to have --- transparent,
only allow slow things through.  I know that no players I GM for would get
their hands on a (fully) working version ;-}



        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3365
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 6:33:07 MET

Chuck McKnight writes:

>               ... if the Task system in Traveller was so horrid, how
> could it have last 15 years?

The background. The detailed painstakingly-worked-on-for-15-years
background that GDW now feels is too intimidating for new players.
I dunno. Maybe it is. But I do know that a science-fiction game
set in a universe with many worlds is inevitably going to be pain-
fully short of data. The player characters should be able go get
lots and lots of information about any planet they visit. But in
Real Life (tm) the referee usually just don't have the time to
work out lots and lots of detail. So what can he do? He can fall
back on a computer-generated list of numbers ("Well, it's got a
class A starport, it's roughly earthsized with a dense atmosphere
and it's about 1/3 covered with water. What? A map? No, sorry.").
Or he can use what other people produce. The Traveller universe
were just approaching a reasonable level of information (at least
in a few select sectors). And now they're going to 1) not fill out
what's missing, and 2) invalidate half of what's already there...

|-( Pfui! :-P


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
                "I am a jelly doughnut."
                        J.F. Kennedy

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3366
Date:     Sat, 21 Dec 91 19:27:33 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Hard Times is Out!

I dropped in at my local distributor's this morning looking for an extra
copy of Cats and Rats for a friend.  I was pleased to see that Hard Times
is out.  Hard Times is a sourcebook which explains the outline of the 
Rebellion from 1120-1125, and provides rules for determining the course
of the break down of Imperial culture from 1125-1128.  In addition, a 
connected series of ten mini-adventures is provided to show the break down
in progress, and discuss the strategies that planets are using to cope
with it.  Discussion and rules mods for starmercs, trade among the the
'wild' planets, new encounter tables, pirate group creation, and a few
other topics are included.  In addition, the rules for pre-gravitic
spacecraft are repeated (with some modifications) from Challenge#45.
(No, the fuel consumption for fusion rockets isn't fixed--multiply by
100 for more reasonable values, and don't forget the house rule fission
fuel fix I use...1 yr/1 hr.)  Data at the beginning and end of the decay
period are provided for two subsectors of Diaspora, on the borders of 
Margaret's domain.

(Oh--new rules: cannibalized parts, trading in worn equipment...)

I'm generally a fan of the work Chuck Gannon has done in Challenge, which
is one of the few things that keeps me buying the magazine, and this is
up to his usual standard.  In fact, I might go so far as to say that this is
possibly the best piece of MT support material to be issued by GDW, at
least as far as content.  (I have some quibbles with the format in some
sections--use of two columns on facing pages in such a way as to cause the
text to be read 1 x x 2 is potentially confusing, and a bit annoying to me
personally.  Your mileage may vary.)  However, some of you will not be
interested--it is dark and grim.  I find the release of this product
ironic in two ways: it shows marked improvement over previous GDW releases
at a time when they are just about to discontinue support of the game as we
know it, and it provides a reasonably well though out mechanism for providing
the 'Space Viking' setting without using any superviruses, and in a time
shift which isn't so great as to make playing through the intervening years
completely unthinkable.  (Thus, it's what we've been requesting, thrown to
us a bone to pacify us before the big change comes.)

Rob Dean

(Good looking cover art too, if a bit Star-Wars-y...)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3367
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 20:55:08 MST
From: npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson, University of Arizona)

Subject: Jumping and Energy.
X-Envelope-to: traveller@metolius.tek.com


Well, I thought I'd throw something into this discussion.  

Q:  How much energy is required to jump and can a fusion power
plant manage the energy required to escape a stellar gravity well?

A:  Assumptions:  one 4p -> He4 reaction leads to 26.73 MeV of 
energy available to the power plant.  I don't know if this includes
neutrino losses, but Nuke phys. isn't one of my physics specialties.

Also, the biggest jump you'd like to make is from Mercury's orbit
of a solar mass star to escape velocity.  This is reasonable to first
order because you don't want to get much closer to a star than this (at
least on a bound orbit) and as mass goes up, luminosity goes up and
you don't want to be close to that star.

Also, I'll use a naive starship of a HG type Scout ship which masses
100,000 kg and uses 20,000 kg of fuel to jump 2.  

The energy required to escape from the sun (GMm/r) at Mercury's 
orbit is 2.22 x 10^9 Joules.  I calculate that from 100% efficient
fusion (assuming the jump costs only escape energy) you could get
5.8 x 10^7 jumps from the Scout ship's required jump fuel.  Obviously
there are other costs:-)  

On a related note, I remember doing a calculation with Dow Rieder
(gods that was a long time ago) to find out whether such a scout
ship could thrust for 4 weeks (as the old rules seem to imply) on
its maneuver fuel.  We calculated 30% mass-> energy conversion
was required if all the energy were converted to acceleration.  
Obviously a problem.

The assumption that starship engines are 100% efficient is not
unreasonable, because if they weren't, the heat lost would fry
a starship in a fraction of a second (this is quoted from an
old Space Gamer, around #40 authored by a person whom I cannot
remember at this time.)  

Lastly, I like the idea about jumping from bound state to bound
state with the same energy around a companion star, but it has
some flaws.  How about transfer of angular momentum?  It may
not be possible to satisfy both in a jump.  Momentum would
have to take preference in the conservation laws as energy can
be released or absorbed by heat (and radiation.)  Note that
it would be theoretically possible to make a jump where the
energy released in the jump to be greater than the energy 
stored in the ship's heat, sending it below absolute zero in
temperature.  

One "physics nullifier box" solution may be absorption and
release of energy from additions or subtractions to the vacuum
zero point energy in the jump region.  Release would cause 
a lot of particles to appear and annihilate each other and
release a lot of energy.  Absorption is more of a problem.
Anyone want to consider wormholes?

Nick Christenson
npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu
#include <disclaimer.h>



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3368
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Efate
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 91 10:44:57 MET

> From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agwbbs@cs.tulane.edu (Cynthia Higginbotham)
> Subject: (3360) Efate System
 
>     Efate is a Libertarian's dream and everyone else's nightmare.  The
> dominant society on Efate was founded by Solomani, possibly of Terran
> French or colonial French ancestry, judging from the French names in
> common use, but after a thousand years of folklore and revisionist
> history, who can tell?

  I believe that Efate is capitol of Tahiti or one of the other archipelago 
states in the pacific. I'm resonably certain that it was a French colony once,
since I looked it up for usable names when I did my version of Efate, and 
most of them were French (BTW, the result looked quite similar to yours: 
Libertaria with cyberpunk although I had more internal differences between the
walled corporate blocks and the slums on unused land. Also, all spaceports 
were either corporate, imperial (IN & IISS), or pay-to-pay. There were ofcourse
the possibility of setting down for free in a vacant lot in the slums, if 
one felt very adventureous:)

> p.s. I have a map of Efate, too, but it's on paper. Has the TML come up
> with some standard for uploading/representing world maps & deck plans?

  There is no official standard I think, but most people (Xfinger:) have access
to either Gif or postscript. I'd think that postscript is more usable for maps
since it is easily printable.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"What's wrong with the slums of Efate? I was born there you know!" 
  -- Preben Moeller, IISS.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3369
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Shields/Dune
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 91 10:20:23 MET

> From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
> Subject: (3358) Re: Shields/Dune
> 
> BAD SHARPE! NO BISCUIT! Body shields= force fields= STAR TREK or 
> STAR WARS. NOT TRAVELLER. Non-physics. Much useless handwaving.
> Enough trouble with thruster plates already. Bad bad bad.

  Ehrrm... Check out the secondary function of the oynssork (sp?) in the 
adventure in the good old Droyne alien module... :)
 
> metlay

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3370
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: potential energy
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 91 11:09:40 MET

> From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> Subject: (3356) Re: potential energy
> 
> "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA> writes:
> >		     More plausible would be to get it as kinetic energy,
> > but physical reality would almost certainly produce it as heat. Which
> > would vapourise the ship, very quickly.
> 
> Great.  Every ship that executes a jump gets fried when it re-enters our
> universe.  This ought to ruin the day of a good few traders!  :-)

  Since the original energy from the drives goes into the jumpfield, which is
held up during the entire jump to isolate from 'jumpspace' and the nessesary
energy for compensating for kinetic differences between the two locally 
strongest gravitational sources and the difference in potential energy is taken
from it. Isn't it easy to assume that an energy gain will be deposited in this
field?
  If it is, it would probably be radiated as heat energy when the field breaks
down at jump-exit. Is this enough to damage the ship? The density of radiation
(in the IR band, probably) is the determining factor here, and I don't know
enough physics to compute it without a lot of litterature that I don't carry
with me.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3371
Date:         Mon, 23 Dec 91 12:56:25 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Merry Christmas

Just a quick posting before christmas to wish all a Merry Christmas and
a Happy New Year.


Joe

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Joe Heck
(314) 882-2131

InterNet: CSPECJH@umcvmb.missouri.edu
BitNet:   CSPECJH@UMCVMB
cc:Mail:  MUCCGW.CSPECJH@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3372
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 12:15:01 -0400
From: cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Dale Poole)
Subject: Merry Christmas


Sorry folks, I couldn't resist!




                                   *
                                  / \
                                 /. o\
                                /   . \
                               / o .   \
                              / .   o   \
                             /     +  .  \
                            /  +   .   .  \
                           /  .      o  +  \
                          / o    .   .      \
                         /      o     o  .   \
                        /  + .      .     +   \
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                   ||
                        Merry     /__\  Christmas


               "Beware these two. The boy is ignorance,
             the girl is want. Beware especially the boy!"

                         - The Spirit of Christmas Present



Dale Poole
cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3373
Subject: TML Hiccups (*BURP!*)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 11:35:20 PST


Just a note, folks.  Metolius' fileserver, mozart, crashed for a couple
days over the weekend leaving metolius in a state where it had some
programs available to run and not others.  They put a bandage on mozart
and got it hobbling around again, and I believe I got all the incoming
messages digested and sent out yesterday.

Happy holiday break, folks!

James
"Help, I've crashed and I can't reboot!"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3374
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 16:22:54 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: RE: Shields/Dune != oynssork

Bertil, the oynssork was a gizmo built by Yaskoydray. By metadefinition,
it has no grounding in recognizable game rules at all, and exists merely
to let players do something that the rules won't let them do. In the days
of Classic Traveller, ALL of Yaskoydray's artifacts served this function
as a sort of safety valve for tech-happy munchkins. There is NO precedent
WITHIN the rules, however, for such a gizmo, nor should there be.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3375
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 16:25:40 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Wormholes NOT

I haven't the time for a real post on this subject, but suffice it to
say that the use of Wormholes is NOT a good idea in explaining Traveller
Jumps. I went over the physics involved with a good friend who is also
(a) a gamer and (b) a General Relativist and ex-student of Ted Newman
(as in Newman/Penrose Black Hole Theory, Newman/Penrose/Chandrashekar,
etc.). We worked out what would happen to a star system that had a 
wormhole opened up anywhere near the primary or one of the planets.
The results were spectacular, but not very pretty.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3376
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 16:28:34 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Hard Times and Good TImes

Well, I'm going to get Hard Times ASAP simply because I may be able
to spin off (would anyone want to add this to the TDR database?) a
non-virused future history for TNE. And Gannon DOES do good work.
I'd be interested in hearing what GEnie's folx are saying about it;
I had expected it not to make the presses at all.

On another note, I'm going to be away from my terminal until just
after New YEar's, except for brief checkins. Everyone have a happy
and safe holiday season, and try to keep the Droyne out of the
punchbowl....|->


ho ho f*cking ho,

metlay
^F

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3377
Date:     Tue, 24 Dec 91 19:27:11 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Seasons Greetings!

Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for the New Year to all!

Let's get back to business soon, eh?  (-:

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3378
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 91 23:39:28 MST
From: npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson, University of Arizona)

Subject: Wormholes NOT(?)  WARNING longish science BS!

Metlay:

Probably this isn't the place to discuss this, but maybe someone wants to 
hear something other than the (very legitimate) Trav: TNG concerns.

Let's assume we have a 400 ton Free trader like the one in the Traveller
Book.  It has a radius (wingspan) of about 50 m.  Let's also assume that
the wormhole must be a created singularity with a Schwarzschild radius
just sufficient to swallow the ship (50m.)  Don't ask about the details.

>From R = 2GM/c^2 we get that it's mass must be 3.37 x 10^28 kg, or 1/60
of a solar mass.  We can get a very rough (order of magnitude) estimate
on how far any orbit will be deviated (assume the distance travel equals
0.5at^2, remember this is a very crude approximation.)  Then we find that
the (maximal) distance from its original orbit is x = Gmt^2/2r^2.
Where t is the amount of time the wormhole is in existance.  This formula
won't be too absurd as long as t is "small."  For a radius of 1 A.U.
for the above singularity lasting for, say, 10 minutes the deviation
would be 45 cm.  Not a big deal.  At a radius of 100 planetary radii, 
the calculated distance would be about 8 x 10^5 meters (I suspect the
formula wouldn't be valid here, but you could calculate the total energy
change of the orbit.)  This would be very measureable.  

Now, a lot of large ships jumping from nearby would cause a big 
problem to a system.  A naval station would have real problems and
jumping with a fleet in formation would be impossible.  Is this
what you found?  Are there other complications I'm overlooking?
(I'm choosing to ignore the creation of 1/60 of a solar mass worth
of energy to create the wormhole:-)  

I thought others may be interested in this but maybe private communication
would be more appropriate.

Nick Christenson
npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu
#include <disclaimer.h>


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3379
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 91 13:17:12 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Chuck McKnight writes:
> >               ... if the Task system in Traveller was so horrid, how
> > could it have last 15 years?
> 
> The background. The detailed painstakingly-worked-on-for-15-years
> background that GDW now feels is too intimidating for new players.
> I dunno. Maybe it is.

  If it was, then TSR wouldn't sell any Forgotten Realms gameworlds and 
accessories. It is well known that I think that the background is the best
part of Traveller, and I'll reinforce that statement and say that Traveller has
the *best* background measured in consistency and amount of background
available for *any* SFRPG that I know of. 

  The trouble has been that there has never been any proper compilation of it.
No one source were you could go to find out if the stats for Norris had been
defined, or if the UPP for Deneb had been produced. So confusion and internal
consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started with MegaTraveller).

  For a good example of this, look up the UPP for Deneb in the Imperial 
Encyclopedia. I think it is under 'Travellers Digest' or 'Digest'. Compare
with the UPP given in the sector data from GEnie or in Digest the realworld
paper...

> The Traveller universe
> were just approaching a reasonable level of information (at least
> in a few select sectors). And now they're going to 1) not fill out
> what's missing, and 2) invalidate half of what's already there...

  The tactics adopted by the Traveller General Command seems to be "Make 
internal inconsistency the normal state" which looks to me as making morals
out of necessity (That was a poorly translated Swedish proverb:)
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3380
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 91 11:34:03 PST
From: cdr@kpc.COM (Carl Rigney)
Subject: Re: Efate

Anyone interested in a High-tech Libertarian Dystopia with cyberpunk
overtones should take a look at Jackson's Whole in Lois McMaster
Bujold's Barrayar series, particularly the 2nd story in _Borders of
Infinity_.  Actually, I'd recommend all her books to anyone interested
in Traveller - the background and tech is similar except there's no
Empire, the characters are likable and the plots are a nice
illustration of how easy it is for things to spiral out of control.
Although her setting uses wormholes similar to the Alderson drive in _Mote
in God's Eye_ rather than jump drive, her usage of the politics of
routes should interest any Traveller GM looking for some ideas.
The books I know about are these (in chronological order);
I recommend them all.

Falling Free		- corporate intrigue and engineering
Shards of Honor		- what its like to be a scout
Barrayar
The Warrior Apprentice	- fun with mercenaries
The Vor Game
Ethan of Athos
Borders of Infinity	- better living through biosculpt
Brother in Arms

- --
Carl Rigney
cdr@kpc.com

"There's more to life than marriage, synths, and Traveller...but so what?"
- -- Metlay (of course)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3381
Date:         Thu, 26 Dec 91 15:07:07 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Future history

I don't know about others, but I'd surely like to see any history data
in our archives if we can get it there! I'd be happy to move anything
you need about - although I might not be the most convenient for this
(being out in mid-missouri).

Happy New Year,

      Joe

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Joe Heck
(314) 882-2131

InterNet: CSPECJH@umcvmb.missouri.edu
BitNet:   CSPECJH@UMCVMB
cc:Mail:  MUCCGW.CSPECJH@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3382
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Efate
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 0:22:57 MET

Thanks. Nice work. But you've forgotten about the Ancients' site. :-)

BTW. Did you know that of the approx. 200 known Ancients' sites,
_6_ are in the Regina subsector?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- - ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3383
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 7:10:09 MET

Bertil writes:
>
>               It is well known that I think that the background is the best
>part of Traveller, and I'll reinforce that statement and say that Traveller
>has the *best* background measured in consistency and amount of background
>available for *any* SFRPG that I know of.

>  The trouble has been that there has never been any proper compilation of
>it. No one source were you could go to find out if the stats for Norris had
>been defined, or if the UPP for Deneb had been produced. So confusion and

You mean confusion went UP, don't you?

>internal consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started with
>MegaTraveller).

Not quite. There were a number of early Traveller ideas that were later
changed retroactively. One example is the scale of Imperial warships
that I've mentioned before. Another is the concept of The Spinward Marches
being on the very edge of explored space (remember the mysterious unknown
Outrim Void mentioned in _Leviathan_? That turned out to have a sector-full
of aslans, some of them long-time trading partners, on the other side.)

>  For a good example of this, look up the UPP for Deneb in the Imperial
>Encyclopedia. I think it is under 'Travellers Digest' or 'Digest'. Compare
>with the UPP given in the sector data from GEnie or in Digest the realworld
>paper...

Another example is the two sub-sectors of Trojan Reach published in
_Leviathan_. Whoever later generated the complete Trojan Reach apparently
couldn't be bothered to incorporate them properly but just generated
completely new stats for them. :-P

Btw. wouldn't that be an interesting project: A complete, collected-in-one-
place set of all published library data? Corrected for inconsistencies, of
course (except for such inconsistencies as might actually be in a library
data pack). I've produced a number of library data for my players, some
corrections of existing (inconsistent) data, others completely new. We
might produce something really useful there. Hmmm... perhaps two sets:
One ca. 1110 for Old Traveller refs and one ca. 1120.

>Me:
>>The Traveller universe
>>were just approaching a reasonable level of information (at least
>>in a few select sectors). And now they're going to 1) not fill out
>>what's missing, and 2) invalidate half of what's already there...
>
>  The tactics adopted by the Traveller General Command seems to be "Make
>internal inconsistency the normal state" which looks to me as making morals
>out of necessity (That was a poorly translated Swedish proverb:)

In this case I think that "dyd" should be translated as virtue, not morals.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3384
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Library data: National Reemergence
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 7:34:11 MET

Here's a library data entry that I cooked up to justify practically any
'theme' planet. If there's is sufficient interest I'll post other items
(I have to translate them from danish, so I won't do it unless it's
properly appreciated ;-)


- ----------8X-----------------------------------------------------------

NATIONAL REEMERGENCE: Social and political phenomenon seen on scores of
solomani-settled  planets  in the wake of the fall of the 2nd Imperium.
During  the  400  years or so that the 2nd Imperium survived,  a goodly
number of the thinly settled planets in Delphi,  Diaspora, Massila, Old
Expanses and Solomani Rim sectors were colonised from Terra.  Emigrants
had  a  tendency to go to planets where people of their ethnic and cul-
tural  background were already established.  Nationalism as such was an
ill-favoured concept in the days of The Terran Federation and continued
to be under under The 2nd Empire.  Peaceful culturalism, however,  were
not,  and  different  groups  usually coexisted without any significant
trouble.
    But as the Twilight fell and  The Long Night  grew steadily darker,
ethnic and cultural sub-groups on scores of planets dug up old cultural
differences  and  used them as a rallying point to increase the group's
sense of identity.  These reconstructed cultures were usually extremely
romantizised, often twisted almost beyond recognition,  but all of them
focused  on a past glorious grandeur and a coming similar glory for the
group.  Examples  are the  'truebrits'  of Cymbeline/Solomani Rim,  the
'inheritors'  of Scandia/Solomani Rim and the 'neo-germanics' of Funft-
reich/Diaspora.  Often an old forgotten language were reconstructed and
made the national language at the same time,  usually at the expense of
the anglic that had been the universal language of  The Terran Confede-
ration  and  The 2nd Empire.  On  some  planets anglic lingered on as a
second language,  on others it was vigorously suppressed.  Many planets
were renamed at the same time.
    Many  planets in the Domain of Deneb and beyond it was colonized by
neo-nationalists.  When their planets were reintegrated into  The Third
Empire  there  were usually groups that preferred emigration to staying
under the new regime. Thus Caledonia/Glisten was colonized from Duncan/
Alpha Crucis,  Ghandi/Lanth  from  Cathay/Vega and  Olympia/Lunion from
Athene/Ultima.
    Opinions about neo-nationalism is sharply divided.  On some planets
it  led to a greater sense of community,  prevented polarization of the
society  and  propably  to  a greater or lesser extent saved the planet
from regression or destruction.  On others,  especially on planets with
more  than  one dominant group,  it led to balkanization,  wars and de-
struction.
[Last update for this entry 109-1085]


NEO-NATIONALISM: See NATIONAL REEMERGENCE.

- ----------8X-----------------------------------------------------------

The 'last update' bit is something I came up with to inform players how
recent their information were. With electronic or holographic storage
individual entries can be updated seperately. Whenever you get access
to a reputable library data purveyor you have your computer run through
his data and update any item with a newer date. Some items gets updated
fairly frequently, other items rarely.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3385
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Bugs
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 12:13:41 MET

  Errata for my latest postings:

  in 'Re: The best thing about Traveller' I wrote:

  So confusion and internal consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started
with MegaTraveller).
  
  add 'went up' after 'confusion'.

  in 'Re: Efate' I wrote:

  pay-to-pay

  should be 'pay-to-play'

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3386
Date:         Fri, 27 Dec 91 12:11:42 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Ancient Site

Okay - for all you fanatics... Where are some of the lesser known, but
defintiely published, ancient sites in the Spinward Marches? If you can
give me any details, all the better.

I honestly don't recall many being published - even looking through the
DGP and GDW logs of star systems - I mostly made my own up when I needed
them.

Joe

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Joe Heck
(314) 882-2131

InterNet: CSPECJH@umcvmb.missouri.edu
BitNet:   CSPECJH@UMCVMB
cc:Mail:  MUCCGW.CSPECJH@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3387
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ancient sites
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 91 23:00:13 MET

Joe Heck asks:
>
> Okay - for all you fanatics... Where are some of the lesser known, but
> defintiely published, ancient sites in the Spinward Marches? If you can
> give me any details, all the better.
>
> I honestly don't recall many being published - even looking through the
> DGP and GDW logs of star systems - I mostly made my own up when I needed
> them.

There's Victoria, written up in the _Journal_ #2 (and presumably
in _Best of Journal_ #1), and Fulacin, written up in Adventure 3,
_Twilight's Peak_. Both of these are very detailed. Knorbes has a
site that's mentioned very slightly in Adventure 1, _Kinunir_.
Pixie has one that's written up in _Traveller's Digest_ #21, but
before you place it there consider the likelihood of someone
coming from Trojan Reach on his way to Rhylanor with three friends
in cold sleep detouring to Pixie without consulting his friends
because he heard about an unknown Ancient site. If I ever run that
adventure I will change the planet to one more or less on the way
between Trojan Reach and Rhylanor.

Be that as it may, four more planets in Regina Subsector has
Ancient sites, though none are written up. Efate is one and I
forget the other three, but they're mentioned in Alien module
5, _Droyne_. Darrian was an Ancient planet (any planet except
Terra with a "native" human race was an Ancient planet), but
most or all traces are presumably gone. Andory and Vanejen were
Ancient planets too (any Droyne and Chirper world is). Any
asteroid belt in the habitable zone around a planet may be an
Ancient ex-planet. The Shionty Belt (where antimatter can be
found drifting around) is thought to be one such.

Incidentally, if a kilo of antimatter hits a ton of matter,
how much of the matter gets converted to energy?

Btw. I'd be very interested in any of your own Ancient sites,
if you've got them written up.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3388
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 91 18:57:53 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Ancient sites

I'm in the middle of a recording session with three keyboardists
screaming for my attention and you want to know about Ancient sites?!

*sigh* The moon of Victoria in Lanth subsector has an Ancient site.
Andor and Candory have them-- one or the other was the Droyne home
world. When this session's over I'll try to look it up in my library,
but please remind me via Email if you don't hear in a week, Joe.

metlay

"No, I was BORN an electronic musician. I only DABBLE in outer space."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3389
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 91 11:26:51 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Subject: (3383) Re: The best thing about Traveller
> 
> >internal consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started with
> >MegaTraveller).
> 
> Not quite. There were a number of early Traveller ideas that were later
> changed retroactively. One example is the scale of Imperial warships
> that I've mentioned before.

  I am under the impression that there were a period of a few years, in 
gameterms(*) just before and after the 5th FW, when the universe were stable 
and established. I can write off any inconsitencies before that as 'childhood 
problems' for the game. But to step off this stable platform and jump into 
self-inconsistency is not a good move.

> >  The tactics adopted by the Traveller General Command seems to be "Make
> >internal inconsistency the normal state" which looks to me as making morals
> >out of necessity (That was a poorly translated Swedish proverb:)
> 
> In this case I think that "dyd" should be translated as virtue, not morals.

  Thanks. 'Virtue' is the right word.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3390
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Library data: National Reemergence
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 91 13:00:34 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Subject: (3384) Library data: National Reemergence
> 
> NATIONAL REEMERGENCE: [..deleted..]

>     But as the Twilight fell and  The Long Night  grew steadily darker,
> ethnic and cultural sub-groups on scores of planets dug up old cultural
> differences  and  used them as a rallying point to increase the group's
> sense of identity.

  This highlights one of the IMHO most interesting topics that hasn't been
mentioned except in passing: What happened on Earth during the Long Night?
  
  There are some shreads of data: The moon was never abandoned. Late during
the night there existed an interstellar state incorporating Terra, so some
interstellar communications must have been restored by then. Other than that
we know next to nothing about a several hundred year long period.

  The reason this is slightly more interesting than "what happened on this-
planet-or-that-planet" is that the accounts of Terra around 1000 Imperial 
gives me the impression that nothing happened. A whole planet was just low-
berthed in 2400 Terran and thawed up around 400 Imperial with all place-names
intact, all old nations still remembered. S&A seems to indicate that the
great geographical changes like the flooding of the Quatara depression 
even happened before the 1st Insterstellar War. And since the Long Night fell
in -1700 Imperial, and the next mention is around 100 Imperial, we are talking
about a period of time of 1800 years during which nothing important happened!

  I'll be the first to admit that technology-wise nothing important really 
happened. Earth just passed the same techlevels twice, once on the way down and
once of the way up. But history is so much more than technological achievements.
Where are all the wars that can happen in 1800 years? Where are all the new
nations? All languages mutate over time but anglic still remains? Where are all
the great Heroes and Villains of history that appear during 1800 years? Where
are all the writers and all the new cliches?

  Can anybody remember any official or semi-official source that mentions 
anything that happened on Earth during those 1800 years?
   
>       Hans Rancke

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

